tempestfan Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 On 16.05.2017 at 1:01 PM, NAVY870 said: What it is though is a nice little A-4K with the hump and square fin tip. It should also be suitable for an H pre tailpipe Extension, though I'm not sure whether it contains the DEFA "gondolas". BTW, congrats grandpa ! On 16.05.2017 at 3:12 PM, Uncle Uncool said: Is it the same kit? Unc2 Not sure about the Ertl timeline, but Ertl took over US Distribution of Esci from ScaleCraft some time around 1982 or so. I rather think this is a boxing from after Ertl bought Esci, so would be around 1988 or so. The mould was something like ten years old then. Ertl did some re-releases of the Basic mould afterwards (red boxes), but I ***think*** the mould went rather dormant after ca. 1995 or so, though I admit I haven't kept track of Italeri's reboxing cycle. Note that many earlier Esci kits suffered from distorted Frames and sometimes parts as the Esci boxes tended to be somwhat small for the Frames, though I think this is a kit-to-kit issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAVY870 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 2 hours ago, tempestfan said: . BTW, congrats grandpa ! Thanks mate, another one to spoil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) On 2017-5-17 at 3:00 AM, NAVY870 said: If your going to backdate the Esci kit to a P or Q you'll need a short nose, new intakes change a lot of panel work on the forward fuselage and add the various antennaes that the Argies glued on. I may have a short nose from a Hobbycraft kit in the junk box, you can have it if I can find it. Hey, Steve! Well, yeh, certainly, I could use that short nose, provided you can find it. Thanks a lot! Everything else for the Argie Scooters I can scratchbuild, even the kit intakes. Tell me if you need me to help with postage, please. Cheers, Unc2 Edit: Thank you too, tempestfan, for the info regarding the Esci/Ertl boxing! I hadn't see it. Edited May 18, 2017 by Uncle Uncool Because I'm going blind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) On 16/5/2017 at 2:01 PM, NAVY870 said: The A-4M/N kit you mentioned isnt either of those marks, missing the larger canopy big bore intakes internal starter exhaust and a few other bits. What it is though is a nice little A-4K with the hump and square fin tip. IIRC it doesn't come with the brake chute housing under the tailpipe that the real A-4K had so it's not good for that variant OOB. Edited May 19, 2017 by Panoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) On 18/5/2017 at 9:36 AM, tempestfan said: It should also be suitable for an H pre tailpipe Extension, though I'm not sure whether it contains the DEFA "gondolas". It does have the DEFA gun parts. But the A-4H also had the brake parachute fairing so it's not good OOB for that variant either... Edited May 19, 2017 by Panoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAVY870 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Panoz said: IIRC it doesn't come with the brake chute housing under the tailpipe that the real A-4K had so it's not good for that variant OOB. It has a fairing, I'm not sure what its supposed to be but it can be beaten into shape for the brake chute. Those of us who used our Scooters properly didnt need brake chutes, we used deck hooks as God intended! Edited May 19, 2017 by NAVY870 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, NAVY870 said: It has a fairing, I'm not sure what its supposed to be but it can be beaten into shape for the brake chute. That was from memory, if it has a fairing shape then it's all OK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Here are sprue pics, there are four flashy parts on the C sprue sub-Frames (Looks like duplicated parts numbering) that I ****think**** are meant to represent the Container, as Steve pointed out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, tempestfan said: Here are sprue pics, there are four flashy parts on the C sprue sub-Frames (Looks like duplicated parts numbering) that I ****think**** are meant to represent the Container, as Steve pointed out. ' Yes you are both right. It does come with the para brake housing. BTW never realised that the Italeri rebox also had the hump sprue from the "M/N" kit... Edited May 19, 2017 by Panoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Panoz said: BTW never realised that the Italeri rebox also had the hump sprue from the "M/N" kit... Well, now I'm puzzled, 'cause if that's the Italeri rebox of the ESCI M/N kit, mine has got the squared tail fin on it, not like that on the Italeri rebox sprue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAVY870 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 11 hours ago, tempestfan said: Here are sprue pics, there are four flashy parts on the C sprue sub-Frames (Looks like duplicated parts numbering) that I ****think**** are meant to represent the Container, as Steve pointed out. Thats them Just for the record the kit isnt a G and cant be built as one from the box. The kit is an early E model sans NWS spoilers and a few other bits and pieces. the 88 series A-4G's were new built as G's the 87 series were rebirthed ex USN F's I'm not sure what the creatures are on the roundels but they dont appear to the the usual red rats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAVY870 Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) On 5/19/2017 at 3:39 AM, Uncle Uncool said: Hey, Steve! Well, yeh, certainly, I could use that short nose, provided you can find it. Thanks a lot! Everything else for the Argie Scooters I can scratchbuild, even the kit intakes. Tell me if you need me to help with postage, please. Cheers, Unc2 Edit: Thank you too, tempestfan, for the info regarding the Esci/Ertl boxing! I hadn't see it. No go on the B nose but I have a complete Hobbycraft A-4C fuselage your welcome too. You could combine it with your kit Edit: also found the big oval antennae fairing fitted to the spine of the Argie birds, yours as well. Edited May 20, 2017 by NAVY870 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 G'day, Steve! Oh, bummer about the B nose, but that's such a generous offer anyway; thank you very much! The ADF antenna on the spine could be of use to me, but I guess the shipping cost from beautiful Aussieland just for that part would be nonsense. I think I can source a conversion set from our local Aconcagua Resin Models store for that price. Hey, will gladly get you any set you want from them if so you like. Thanks, Steve! Unc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 On 20/05/2017 at 2:28 AM, NAVY870 said: also found the big oval antennae fairing fitted to the spine of the Argie birds, yours as well. That's the VLF Omega antennae. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Antoine said: That's the VLF Omega antennae. No, not the bulging fairing over the spine, which is the ADF, as I stated above. The Omega is another antenna which was not installed on every aircraft. Like Steve said previously, the Argentinean Scooters had quite a lot of antennae "glued" on them; here on the A-4Q: Hope it helps, Antoine. Cheers, Unc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Both are part of the system, the one you show being the simpler GNS-500 E-Field antenna, while the more complex flat-shaped Antenna Coupler Unit is under the dorsal oval fairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Are you sure about that, bud? Every Scooter in Argie service has got the dorsal oval fairing on the spine, but this is not the case with the Omega equipment. During the war for the Falkland there was a flight of Scooters whose leader got shot down, leaving his wingman without the possibility to rendezvous with the tanker while RTB owing to his aircraft not being fitted with the Omega equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I'm not 100% sure about this, 'cause I don't know the exact fit of COAN & FAA Skyhawks, and I've never seen anything definitive about this since I started to gather informations on the subject, a loooong time ago. But I'm sure the oval shape is too big for a simple ADF antenna. Basically, there are two kind of Omega system for aircraft. One quite simple, usually fitted to small civilian aircraft, with the saber antenna shown on your pics. The other much capable, just a bit short of today's GPS, need the flat-shaped antenna coupler unit and different black boxes in the fuselage and cockpit. This said, I've never seen the saber antenna in any pics showing a COAN/FAA Skyhawk during the war. And beside, the antenna dorsal fairing presence doesn't mean that the antenna and the whole system is there, it just shows that the aircraft is wired. Anyway, I'll be happy to be proved wrong, or right, but with hard fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Perhaps it's difficult to find piccies of it because there were only 2 A-4Qs with the VLF Omega installed during the war, and as I said, the antenna is the saber one installed on the spine - behind the canopy - on the COAN birds; while it was below the radome - close to the emblem of the Grupo 5 de Caza on the few FAA A-4P birds which had it installed during the war, if there was any (I surmise there was just one). As for the FAA A-4Cs, they had the VLF Omega Litton LTN-211, of which I couldn't real tell how many had it operative during the conflict. Cheers, Unc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Guys, Slightly off track, however certainly in line with this thread..... Question - What colour should one paint the 'inside' of the wing leading edge slats (the moving portion as viewed from the underside)? Believe it or not, this are is quite difficult to see in photo's Both the 1/72 Airfix A-4B and Eduard's 1/48 'Vietnam Scooters' edition suggest that these area are painted red, however there's a colour photograph in Stuart Wilsons book "Phantom, Hornet and Skyhawk - in Australian Service" where this area appears to be painted White on an RAN operated A-4G. I'm am painting the little Airfix A-4B kit in typical Grey / White Hi-Viz scheme and although I'm sure my kit is laced with small errors, am trying to get this as correct as I can. Any thoughts and suggestion would be appreciated. Cheers.. Dave., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Dave I depends on the particular aircraft, operator and time.... On our (RNZAF) A-4's in the Euro 1 and All green scheme they were green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Thanks Calum, Something tells me that 'red' for the inside / underside slat area may be one of those urban myths that may be quite hard to prove wrong. I've always thought that red was it, however delving ever deeper would tend to show that it's either white or some other underside / overall colour - but not red! I'm always happy to be proven wrong, so hopefully someone will show up with the relevant info soon enough. Cheers.. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Well, the more I search, the more antenna I find on those skyhawks.... I'm maybe wrong after all, but I'm really wondering about the big oval antenna being an ADF and not related to Omega. I did know about Omega being installed only on a few aircraft, but not such a low number. And can't believe that Argentine being part of Omega project (with its own emitter at Trelew) fitted its A-4s with only a basic receiver (as demonstrated by the saber antenna), yet keeping a big ADF fairing topside. Maybe the answer is in those upgrades timetable? I mean, VLF came latter? Also, I don't buy the story of the wingman unable to find the tanker, being not fitted with Omega. Omega would have certainly helped, yes, but for this role, ADF fits exactly, the Herk then having to act as an NDB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAVY870 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Thanks Calum, Something tells me that 'red' for the inside / underside slat area may be one of those urban myths that may be quite hard to prove wrong. I've always thought that red was it, however delving ever deeper would tend to show that it's either white or some other underside / overall colour - but not red! I'm always happy to be proven wrong, so hopefully someone will show up with the relevant info soon enough. Cheers.. Dave. On the G's it was white 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, NAVY870 said: On the G's it was white Thanks for confirming my thought's Steve - at least on the 'G's anyway. Kinda think that this would have probably been the norm on the early B's and most other US Navy Scooters in the High-Viz scheme. Cheers... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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