Bullbasket Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Thanks Francis. I'm waiting to see what you come up with after the M48. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 The unthreaded M1A1 gun barrel would fit with the 2 large hatches, both being early T23 turret features. Oldsmobile built all the M1-series 76's and only 385 unthreaded M1A1s came off the line before the threaded M1A1C replaced it, so it was pretty rare anywhere. Both M4A1 and A3 were built with the M1A1 gun. All M4A1 76's were built by Pressed Steel Car (PSC), who were only supplied with turrets cast by Union Steel Corp (USC). The Extra Lift Ring turrets were only cast by Continental Steel and American Steel Foundries and were only supplied to Chrysler, who used them on the M4A3 76 for about 4 months until the moulds were altered: about 500 turrets. That variant of the turret was the true genuine original unaltered turret from the cancelled T23 tank, for which Chrysler were the design lead. Chrysler simply used the existing design unaltered to get things going. Those extra ring turrets also lacked the rear ventilator as the T23's ventilation system didn't need it. No turrets produced by USC had the extra ring, so it shouldn't be seen on an M4A1 76. I can't see it in the photo and there should also be a shadow if it were there The first 450 USC turrets also didn't have the rear ventilator, so I think it safe to assume that the vehicle in the photo didn't have it. I don't know how trustworthy the drawing is, but it shows the vent absent. Because of the production numbers and the single supplier of guns it is unlikely that any rear-vented turrets would have received the M1A1 gun: 950 turrets without vents and only 385 guns. Same with the small loader's hatch, which didn't come in on the A1 until Aug 44, 8 months after production commenced (Oct on the A3). The small hatch is usually associated with the M1A2 gun with the factory-fitted muzzle brake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 12 hours ago, Das Abteilung said: Because of the production numbers and the single supplier of guns it is unlikely that any rear-vented turrets would have received the M1A1 gun: 950 turrets without vents and only 385 guns. Probably one of the few exceptions to this were the A3's supplied to the French 2nd AD. Some of these had the extra "lifting eye", M1A1 gun, rear armoured ventilator and the 2" mortar along with the large loaders hatch. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Ah yes. And there is a monument/preserved 2eme DB A3 76 "Champagne" in just this configuration. I was thinking specifically of A1s, but failed to qualify the text thus. The "extra ring" turrets supplied to Chrysler all had the rear vent. This of course means that I goofed the maths too: it was only 450 no-vent turrets, not 950, all on A1s. D'oh!! It is my understanding that all the extra ring turrets were large-hatch, as the ring was eliminated round about July and the small hatch didn't come in until October on A3s. But with the M1A1 gun being used by both PSC and Chrysler, I still believe that there would not have been any A1 76's with the plain muzzle and the rear vent as the limited production of those guns would have been used up well before A1s started getting the rear vent. A no-vent A1 76 with the M1A1C gun is a feasible configuration: there were probably somewhere around 200 of these built. Muzzle brakes were supposed to be field retro-fitted as available, but how many ever were seems to be unknown. I pulled the Dragon kit out of the stash stack earlier. It has the plain muzzle barrel (aluminium), which is appropriate for Op Cobra. But it has the rear turret vent, which I believe to be incorrect: believe, not stating conclusively. Fortunately it is a separate part, but less fortunately Dragon have moulded a deep recess for it so plasticard, filler and Mr Surfacer will be needed to correct it. Thinking about Shermans always makes my head hurt ....................... It's no wonder modellers and manufacturers get confused! And why does no-one make a Fisher small hatch M4A2 hull? It was the majority A2 version and is different in very many details from any other, although some of those individual detail variances were used by other plants. At one time USMC demanded exclusively Fisher A2s, which the Dragon early PTO A2 doesn't represent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentG Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Beautiful build sir! 2 hours ago, Das Abteilung said: And why does no-one make a Fisher small hatch M4A2 hull? It was the majority A2 version and is different in very many details from any other, although some of those individual detail variances were used by other plants. At one time USMC demanded exclusively Fisher A2s, which the Dragon early PTO A2 doesn't represent. Elaborate on this please. I'm truly not familiar with the topic, other than Fischer built small hatch A2's had the welded hoods. G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Not all Fishers had welded hoods. DV ones had the same cast hatch surrounds as others, but when the enlarged hoods with the periscope came in the welded ones appeared. These remained unique to Fisher and were used exclusively until the change to the 47deg glacis and large hatches. Essentially, Fisher used many welded-on/in fabricated "substitute standard" parts where others used cast-in or welded-on/in cast parts - although as time went by and more foundry capacity came on line they did revert to using some standardised parts. The Sherman Minutia site explains it all well, so I won't repeat it all here. http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/ Fisher built about 3,600 small hatch A2's, whereas total A2 production across ALCO, Baldwin and Federal only amounted to about 700. Yet the Dragon Sherman III kits seem to best represent ALCO production, of which there were only 150. Probably because of the way they mix and match their welded upper hull with different rear decks. They have to have something that works across M4, A2 and A3. A Fisher hull only works for M4A2 as they didn't build anything else. I haven't seen that any of the after-market people have done a Fisher hull either, at least not currently. So, typically, you would find a multi-part welded-together glacis, a fabricated hull MG mount, a fabricated D-shaped antenna base, fabricated headlight mounts, fabricated hoods if not DV, padded lift rings and all the bullet splash around the turret and fuel fillers would be fabricated. By fabricated I mean formed from cut and bent plate rather than castings, giving a much more sharp-edged and square-join appearance. There were 4 distinctly different glacis configurations over time, 2 each for DV and non DV. As with the fabricated drivers' hoods, the fabricated splash parts remained unique to Fisher and were used exclusively (with the probable exception of 1 piece). So, whichever way you look at it Fishers were always different from other brands. Apart from those few hundred supplied to USMC, who preferred and demanded Fishers, the rest went for Lend-Lease to Russia and the Commonwealth. Statistically, therefore, any M4A2/Sherman III in Soviet or Commonwealth service is very much more likely to be a Fisher than anything else. 3,600 vs 540 Federal, 150 ALCO and 12 Baldwin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentG Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 So why does the DML Sherman A2 kit, or the Sherman III kit not represent the Fischer build type? G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 Thanks G. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Das Abteilung said: Ah yes. And there is a monument/preserved 2eme DB A3 76 "Champagne" in just this configuration. Yes, I did this one last year. You can find it in RFI. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Regarding the Fishers, the Dragon M4A2 "Tarawa" and "Sicily" Sherman III DO represent the welded-hood Fisher configuration for Dec 42 - Dec 43. As does the Verlinden A2 resin hull. I stand corrected and very apologetic on that score: it's that brain-mouth thing again. As this is the final configuration before the 47 deg glacis change it's more "late" than "mid" production, but adding weld marks for the multi-part glacis would make it a Nov-Dec 42 "mid". The other "mid" configuration for Nov 42 would be DV with a one-piece glacis. However all the other Dragon Sherman III versions and the Tasca one are representative of other manufacturers. All look like Federals because of the recessed backs of the antenna bases. ALCO antenna bases stood proud all round and it is believed they only produced DV A2s anyway, changing to the cast large hood when they switched to M4 production. Federals were the 2nd most common A2, but still only about 1/6th of the Fisher number. It seems they may have carried on making DVs into 1943, later than anyone else, and these were still being supplied to the UK as late as autumn 44. Somewhere along the line they should have received applique plates. DVs fitted with applique, but no additional periscope, must have been hard to drive when closed-down. So yes, in contradiction of myself and back-pedaling like mad, you can indeed make a welded-hood Fisher A2 in probably its most common configuration OOB from one of two Dragon kits. However, if you want a DV Fisher A2 that requires a good deal of surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentG Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I fully agree with everything you have said! Of course I had to go look at my stash and built ups to see if I missed anything! Enough already, let's get back to John's wonderful build. G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 Not a problem G. You live and learn. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 As I've explained at the beginning if the thread, I've uploaded replacement photos that had been lost due to Village Photos. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef N. Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 That's a cracker John. Thanks for uploading the photos and showing us this marvelous model.👏👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 15 hours ago, Stef N. said: That's a cracker John. Thanks for uploading the photos and showing us this marvelous model.👏👍 Thanks a lot Stef. Just a shame that the original photos went walkabout. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carius Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Another top job my friend, I love it. Superb Sherman indeed. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Carius said: Another top job my friend, I love it. Superb Sherman indeed. Cheers Hi Cesar, and thanks for the comments. It was originally posted 6 years ago, but then the photos disappeared. I'm trying to gradually get around to reposting all of the missing photos on my earlier threads. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeff Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Great job John. Weathering is great and I do like the simplicity of the base .... it makes sure that focus on the main attraction! Keith.  Edited February 11, 2023 by Keeff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 20 hours ago, Keeff said: Great job John. Weathering is great and I do like the simplicity of the base .... it makes sure that focus on the main attraction! Keith.  Thanks a lot Keith. I keep them as simple as possible, mainly because I'm not very good at bases! John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edjbartos Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 That looks fantastic John, the painting and weathering is superb... Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 6 hours ago, edjbartos said: That looks fantastic John, the painting and weathering is superb... Ed Many thanks Ed. Much appreciated. I found that there are about a dozen that the photo hosting sites messed up, so I'll try and bring them back again, but not all at once. It's easier doing that at the moment than modelling, as my arthritis meds have stopped working, and my hands are a bit inflamed, so modelling has slowed right down. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edjbartos Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 hope they get better soon John... all the best Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muchmirth Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) Gorgeous tank and fantastic figures, worth it with the hornets heads. Really like the decals as well. You should be bringing this one to your next competition for sure. All the best Paul Edited February 13, 2023 by Muchmirth Spelling again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bissyboat Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Excellent workmanship on the tank and the crew. Absolutely first class! ⚓🙌 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 23 hours ago, edjbartos said: hope they get better soon John... all the best Ed Thanks Ed. I've got a day in hospital on the first of March when they are going to teach me to self inject. Oh what fun!. 14 hours ago, bissyboat said: Excellent workmanship on the tank and the crew. Absolutely first class! ⚓🙌 Thanks very much. 21 hours ago, Muchmirth said: Gorgeous tank and fantastic figures, worth it with the hornets heads. Really like the decals as well. You should be bringing this one to your next competition for sure. All the best Paul Many thanks Paul. Yes, the Hornet Heads make a world of difference. I did enter this in the competition at the Nationals 6 years ago, but it didn't get anything. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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