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Tornado when "parked",question on the position of the wings


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..as seen a tornado in 32 sc is not so suitable as dimensions/space required in our modern homes & shelves, if a do the Revell tornado in 32 sc (mould 1995)with wings at the minimum arrow ? am i in error?in the 99% of the pics the plane seem to be with the maximum wingspan/minimum arrow when parked..that's the opposite that i'd hope :)

 

what to do?

 

 

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It could, just not often seen, perhaps at airshows? I'm sure I read somewhere that the F3 couldn't sit on the ground with the big external tanks on and the wings swept back due to a different centre of gravity. 

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From what I have read when this has been discussed before it has to do with the fuel load and the way this affects the centre-of-gravity and was exacerbated in the RAF bomber variants when their fin tank was used that limited the wings being fully swept back on the ground.     Because of its greater length and an extra fuel tank behind the cockpit the F.2/F.3 did not quite have the same restriction and wings were often to be seen swept fully back when maneuvering within the confines of HAS sites and busy flight lines.      Generally though both types seem to have their wings swept forward when parked presumably for easier access to flying surfaces , underwing stores etc. and to standardise working procedures.

 

 

In the image taken below at RAF Leuchars in June 2008 a 111 Sqn. F.3 is taxying to clear its HAS area with wings fully swept while the other crewing up in the background is parked with wings fully forward.

 

P6230187_zpsyv9h2in3.jpg

Edited by Des
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On 03/05/2017 at 02:01, Des said:

From what I have read when this has been discussed before it has to do with the fuel load and the way this affects the centre-of-gravity and was exacerbated in the RAF bomber variants when their fin tank was used that limited the wings being fully swept back on the ground.     Because of its greater length and an extra fuel tank behind the cockpit the F.2/F.3 did not quite have the same restriction and wings were often to be seen swept fully back when maneuvering within the confines of HAS sites and busy flight lines.      Generally though both types seem to have their wings swept forward when parked presumably for easier access to flying surfaces , underwing stores etc. and to standardise working procedures.

 

 

In the image taken below at RAF Leuchars in June 2008 a 111 Sqn. F.3 is taxying to clear its HAS area with wings fully swept while the other crewing up in the background is parked with wings fully forward.

 

 

Ah yes, I got it the wrong way round it was the F3 that could do it!

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I might be wrong in this, but when I was stationed at Gutersloh we had a person who used to work on Tornados GR1s and he said that when the bigger fuel tanks were fitted there was a block placed in the slot to the rear of the wing sweep handle so that the wings could not be swept fully back. I think that this was done for when the aircraft was on the ground or in the air, and he also added that this was something to do with the fins of the tanks interfering with the tailerons.

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7 hours ago, italian intruder said:

plz focus on idv variant only,if u can,thnx (however thnx Jabba )

 

GR1s are IDS version, it is just the RAF designation.

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The choice of a Saudi IDS will take you back to the RAF's Tornado GR.1 on which their aircraft are said to have been based and for which the first batch delivered were diverted on the production line from RAF to Saudi service.      

 

As mentioned earlier it seems that all bomber variants had centre-of-gravity wing sweep restrictions with wheels down which were even more relevant on the RAF GR.1 (and Saudi IDS) by the eventually inhibited 121 Gallon/551 Litre tail fin fuel tank.     I have looked through a whole stack of books on the Tornado and cannot find any images of an operational IDS/ECR/GR.1/GR.4 on the ground with full load of tanks and pods with wings swept and can only imagine any that might be found are of an unfueled aircraft in a promotional or airshow setting.     

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the saudi tornado had and have even the old type of tank,that one smaller

this aside, i've seen many books and not only "cannot find any images of an operational IDS/ECR/GR.1/GR.4 on the ground with full load of tanks and pods with wings swept " but i've not seen a sole single pic of tornado on the ground with wings at the maximum arrow at all! the maximum ive seen is the pic above of marineflieger ive posted above,but nuttin else of more "extreme"

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The GR Tornado's always had their wings in the fully forward position on the ground. The only time this wasn't the case was in Bahrain during Op Granby/Desert Storm where the four aircraft located on the old RAF Muharraq site were positioned in Dutch barn hangars.

 

The fully forward wingspan was greater than the width of the Dutch barn (found out the hard way when a wing tip was damaged after colliding with one of the hangar uprights). After that the wings were slightly swept back so that the aircraft could taxi in & out of the hangars safely.

 

XVTonker. :pilot:

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On 02/05/2017 at 7:21 PM, Jabba said:

I might be wrong in this, but when I was stationed at Gutersloh we had a person who used to work on Tornados GR1s and he said that when the bigger fuel tanks were fitted there was a block placed in the slot to the rear of the wing sweep handle so that the wings could not be swept fully back. I think that this was done for when the aircraft was on the ground or in the air, and he also added that this was something to do with the fins of the tanks interfering with the tailerons.

 

This is still correct on the GR.4 due to the bigger tanks length and size if the wings where to sweep all the way back the flaps and tailrons would hit.

 

I believe empty GR.4s can be swept on the ground but if there is fuel in the jet the wings will always be forward. When refueling the jets we always have to make sure there is atleast 500kg more in the front of the jet before we can start to refuel the rear of the jet to stop the centre of gravity moving, although i have ended up with a tail heavy jet with a Raptor pod on before and you could see the front pointing up abit more than usual. The only time the wings are really swept on the ground is for functionals when work has been completed and this is usually done with a tressal placed under the rear of the jet or with jacks placed in. I have seen a jet before with one wing swept and the other forward which gave it abit of a weird look

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4 hours ago, chrisov said:

Was it broken? As I had always thought the wimgs were connected and moved together.

I tetrsting idea though.

 

There is a system connecting them so they sweep at the same rate and so they will always be at the same place. When i saw the jet like it, it had just had the wing sweep actuator changed so the connection had not been put back on so the wings could be sweep indepently to make sure the new actuator was fitted correctly and worked correctly

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On 5/10/2017 at 5:46 AM, Motley said:

 

There is a system connecting them so they sweep at the same rate and so they will always be at the same place. When i saw the jet like it, it had just had the wing sweep actuator changed so the connection had not been put back on so the wings could be sweep indepently to make sure the new actuator was fitted correctly and worked correctly

 

Hello Motley,

 

I didn't know about the actuator and now I can't help but wonder if this is a standard feature on sweep wing jets.

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There is a picture of a F-14 in the air with one wing forward and one aft.  I recall the caption stating it was a test to see if the aircraft was flyable in that configuration and took a lot of engineering to make it happen.  It was a test done in 85/86.  Picture is in Aerospace book on the F-14.  So it can be done!

 

George

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8 hours ago, boffin said:

There is a picture of a F-14 in the air with one wing forward and one aft.  I recall the caption stating it was a test to see if the aircraft was flyable in that configuration and took a lot of engineering to make it happen.  It was a test done in 85/86.  Picture is in Aerospace book on the F-14.  So it can be done!

 

George

 

The fly-by-wire must have been really confused...

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 13/05/2017 at 10:39, boffin said:

There is a picture of a F-14 in the air with one wing forward and one aft.  I recall the caption stating it was a test to see if the aircraft was flyable in that configuration and took a lot of engineering to make it happen.  It was a test done in 85/86.  Picture is in Aerospace book on the F-14.  So it can be done!

 

George

 

F-14-asymmetric

 

Cheers,

Bill

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  • 4 months later...

I can 100% confirm that the Tornado F.3 can and was parked up with the wings fully swept provided the Hindenburg tanks weren't fitted. I believe due to the additional length of the fwd fuselage the CoG wasn't an issue with this variant.

 

Eng

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On 9/30/2017 at 1:09 PM, Shaun said:

I have been looking though a few pics of F3 and these seem to park with the wing closed and forward.

Mentioned six months ago , there was a photo but it has been 'Photoboxed'.

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