jea-baptiste Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Hello, I search any information about f-7 liberator with synthetic haze paint, specialy about "hangover Haven". Thanks in advance. Jb Edited April 30, 2017 by jea-baptiste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 It's not the one you are looking for but the Osprey book B-24 Liberator Units of the CBI has picture and profile of F-7 Rice Pattie Hattie of the 24th CMS in Synthetic Haze finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Hangover Haven II, F-7A 42-64053, 6PRG 20CMS, salvaged on Biak Island in 1945, by which time it had lost its blue paint for NMF but retained the artwork, a classic of Al Merkling Obviously the synthetic paint around the artwork was still there at the time this photo was taken http://b-24.weebly.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jea-baptiste Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Hello I dont understand this picture, specialy under the noseart... Normaly, synthetic haze paint aller over the plane, What's this clear color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 The caption of the above pic I posted is wrong I just found out, it should have read: HANGOVER HAVEN II in all it's colourful glory. This one shows the AC with stripped haze camo: HANGOVER HAVEN II after stripping to NMF but leaving a blue outline to the artwork. http://b-24.weebly.com/before--after2.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 8 hours ago, jea-baptiste said: Hello I dont understand this picture, specialy under the noseart... Normaly, synthetic haze paint aller over the plane, What's this clear color? The undersides probably were of a lighter haze paint application, or they were in light grey, hard to tell from the the first color photo of the nose art The lighter streaks behind the feet of the elephant were probably part of the artwork ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Btw Hasegawa obviously have their painting guide wrong as both the B/W and the color photo I posted prove it had a separate underside color ... Haze paint didn't mean a common overall color per se ... often the underside was treated with more haze paint which resulted in a lighter colors: http://www.34thprs.org/html/aircraft/haze.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Now I found another version of the first photo with the nose art, it is much paler and doesn't even show any blue tone. Leads me to the conclusion that the photo has been tampered with or even was colorized: http://www.b24bestweb.com/Pics-F7-D-H.htm The B/W photo shows a sharp vertical demarcation line behind the cockpit, could it be that it was the paint was not finished yet at the the it was taken. As usual more questions arise the more photos appear ... Please, has anyone maybe more info on the colors that were actually used on these F-7s? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Hello occa! I studied Haze and Synthetic Haze schemes for my P-38 F5. I'm not sure if this information suits for a B-24 but here we go. Haze Paint: the whole aircraft was painted with black and then a over sprayed with special white paint. The pigment particles were smaller than an air molecule which caused the light to back scatter from the surface. Depending of the altitude and light it looked anything between black and light blue. The shadow areas were given a thicker coat of white paint. Problems with the Haze Paint were: 1. The painted surface was very delicate to all erosion and 2. It looked too dark above 20.000 ft. Synthetic Haze Paint was developed to replace the original Haze Paint. In this scheme the aircraft was given a coat of medium blue colour called "Sky Base Blue" and then over sprayed with light blue called "Flight Blue". Sky Base Blue is FS 15123 and Flight Blue FS 35190. Flight Blue was available in Xtracolor's enamel range. Both colour schemes were very difficult and time consuming to apply. This is why they were dropped and late F-5s went to war in NMF. Best Regards, Antti 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 23 minutes ago, Antti_K said: Hello occa! I studied Haze and Synthetic Haze schemes for my P-38 F5. I'm not sure if this information suits for a B-24 but here we go. Haze Paint: the whole aircraft was painted with black and then a over sprayed with special white paint. The pigment particles were smaller than an air molecule which caused the light to back scatter from the surface. Depending of the altitude and light it looked anything between black and light blue. The shadow areas were given a thicker coat of white paint. Problems with the Haze Paint were: 1. The painted surface was very delicate to all erosion and 2. It looked too dark above 20.000 ft. Synthetic Haze Paint was developed to replace the original Haze Paint. In this scheme the aircraft was given a coat of medium blue colour called "Sky Base Blue" and then over sprayed with light blue called "Flight Blue". Sky Base Blue is FS 15123 and Flight Blue FS 35190. Flight Blue was available in Xtracolor's enamel range. Both colour schemes were very difficult and time consuming to apply. This is why they were dropped and late F-5s went to war in NMF. Best Regards, Antti Adding to what Antti explained for the F-5 and Synthetic Haze Paint, from the beginning the F-7 used the same Sky Base Blue and Flight Blue lacquers, but applied the paints in the same pattern as OD and Neutral Gray. When aerial camouflage was found to be less necessary, it was stripped in the field. Cheers, Dana 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Thanks Antti and Dana ! Now I only wonder where the vertical demarcation line came from, since it appears that the (B/W) photo was taken on a cloudy day it can't be shadow ... We probably will never know the full details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 2 hours ago, occa said: Thanks Antti and Dana ! Now I only wonder where the vertical demarcation line came from, since it appears that the (B/W) photo was taken on a cloudy day it can't be shadow ... We probably will never know the full details Hi Occa, I've seen those vertical demarcations in a number of photos, particularly on B-17s, but I've never been able to confirm where they originated. Since many of the photos show aircraft fresh from the factory, my best guess has been that it has something to do with the arrangement of work stands. In modeling, we load up the airbrush, pick up the model in the other hand, and paint away. I suspect that on the real aircraft, one team was painting the nose, while another team worked from the wing aft - any differences in the paint used by each team could have produced such demarcations. It's just a theory, but it would be fun to replicate it on a model one day... Cheers, Dana 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Dana Bell said: Hi Occa, I've seen those vertical demarcations in a number of photos, particularly on B-17s, but I've never been able to confirm where they originated. Since many of the photos show aircraft fresh from the factory, my best guess has been that it has something to do with the arrangement of work stands. In modeling, we load up the airbrush, pick up the model in the other hand, and paint away. I suspect that on the real aircraft, one team was painting the nose, while another team worked from the wing aft - any differences in the paint used by each team could have produced such demarcations. It's just a theory, but it would be fun to replicate it on a model one day... Cheers, Dana Hi Dana ! Very interesting, I never noticed it on other AC before. Now since you said it I will pay more attention to that. The F-7s were converted from B-24 so maybe the photos show the repaint not finished yet ? Or maybe in this case it wasn't considered necessary to do a full repaint. Maybe a bit like here for example: One can see a bit of the previous paint job here on the fin where the yellow black checkerboard is still visible, also the paint on the rudder appears to be in OD : Consolidated B-24J-1-CF Liberator converted to F-7A, s/n 42-64102 “Nosie Rosie” of the 24th Combat Mapping Squadron, 8th Photo Reconnaissance Group, 10th Air Force. http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/b-24/b-24-liberator-in-color/ Cheers ! Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jea-baptiste Posted May 2, 2017 Author Share Posted May 2, 2017 Good evening everyone, I thank you very much for your help, especially to Dana for his interpretation of the camouflage of the F-7A which after explanation, makes us clearly understand the black and white photo of the plane! I am going to orient myself towards this theory for the assembly of my model. at work!!! Thanks JB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wschurr Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 What was ‘Sky Base Blue” and “Flight Blue”? I’m wanting to do the 32nd kit as Hangover Haven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyDad Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) I too have an interest in 'Hangover Haven II'. Thanks very much to @Antti_K and @Dana Bell for their valuable contributions about paintwork and markings. Focusing upon the artwork for 'Hangover Haven II' (and therefore slightly off-topic regarding the original question), I have the Pyn-Up decal sheet for this F-7A. The instructions describe two versions of the artwork for Haze painted and bare metal versions of 42-64053. They describe the first version ('Haze Blue' sic) as 'not outlined' but the bare metal version as being outlined in blue. I can see in the pictures above (thanks Occa, these are great!) when the paint has been stripped, the start of the name is missing the double inverted comma and has a letter 'h' at a different angle. Much closer examination reveals that the caption lettering differs in the 2 versions (look at the 'o'and 'a' for example). The artwork appears identical, but is it? I would suggest the 'outlining' is original Haze paint where the paint crew simply masked the artwork with a border of background camouflage. Perhaps they accidentally removed the beginning of the inscription and it had to be redone? A 1/32 Synthetic Haze F-7 would be impressive! Notice the artwork on the instructions below is missing the black top to the lamp post, but it's there on the pictures (both Haze and NM) and on the Pyn-Up decals. This is the NMF version of the lettering. Another example of @Troy Smith 's mantra of not trusting profiles without evidence (but we have the pictures here ) Image posted solely for the purpose of research/study SD Edited November 22, 2019 by SafetyDad Formatting & additional info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyDad Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Oh, I've started something! It's like one of those puzzles where you're asked to spot the differences between 2 seemingly identical images. There are 4 liquid drops from the bottle held by the elephant on the Haze F-7 and none on the BMF example. I'm stopping now . 10 minutes of my life I won't get back... SD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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