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Weathering Dark Blue Navy Colors


Crossiant Oliver

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Most of the aircraft I have build (in terms of naval aircraft) are the ones with the late war dark blue Corsairs and Hellcars used. The only problem is that it's the darkest color I paint with besides black, and I have no idea how to weather them. Can anyone give me tips of how to weather this type of color?

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Yep, it was INCREDIBLY tough, was designed to protect from the harsh ocean elements more than anything, and was amazing in this role. I've heard testimony from guys working on restoring examples for display telling what a nightmare it was even trying to sand through it down to metal. 

Amazingly, LIGHT panel washes might be the way to go for some of it, as it did show the accumulation of salt spray. 

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Pale blue and dusty tan colours are good for weathering Sea Blue. There's an amazing build of an SB2C Helldiver elsewhere on the interwebs by a gentleman named Chuck Wojtkiewicz.

The thread title was "Helldiver, all out build!" He used pale blue wash in the panel lines and dusty tan washes in the crevices. Later on he also used oil paint filters on the major panels.

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Glossy Sea Blue (ANA 623) actually had a poor reputation with the Navy - the wartime color faded too rapidly, losing much of the blue hue.  I'd recommend adding small amounts of a medium gray, but don't go too far if you're worried about scale effect.

 

In 1947/48 BuAer responded to the many complaints by reformulating the paint and issuing a completely new standard color chip.

 

BTW, Intermediate Blue underwent a similar change of formula during the war, though the color chip remained the same.  In the original paint, the blue pigments often faded to leave only a pale pink.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

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1 hour ago, Dana Bell said:

Glossy Sea Blue (ANA 623) actually had a poor reputation with the Navy - the wartime color faded too rapidly, losing much of the blue hue.  I'd recommend adding small amounts of a medium gray, but don't go too far if you're worried about scale effect.

 

In 1947/48 BuAer responded to the many complaints by reformulating the paint and issuing a completely new standard color chip.

 

BTW, Intermediate Blue underwent a similar change of formula during the war, though the color chip remained the same.  In the original paint, the blue pigments often faded to leave only a pale pink.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Hi Dana.

Do you have any information about the difference in hue between the wartime and post-1946 versions of GSB?

 

Cheers,

Pip

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Tryed to just give the modell an carefull shade of matt or siden clear varnish on topsides where the sun shined on the real aircraft?

Intersting question and I like to read different experiences and ideas about this subject..

 

Sheers / André

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7 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Hi Dana.

Do you have any information about the difference in hue between the wartime and post-1946 versions of GSB?

 

Cheers,

Pip

 

Hi Pip,

 

I've got the correspondence about the changes, the 1944 cardboard chip, and the post-war metal chip, but I don't have any technical analyses of the colors.  In short, while I've got proof that it happened, I don't have Munsell values that will lead you to accurate matches.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

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10 hours ago, Crossiant Oliver said:

Would it be good if I mixed Tamiya Midnight Blue with a dash of humbrol 104 to get a faded look?

Yes, and no. Tamiya and Humbrol are two different types of paint, so won't mix well. You will likely get a goop. 

 

If you want to use Tamiya, I'd mix in XF-8 or XF-18 in smaller quantities to get a lightened effect, the latter color having a bit of gray in it. 

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4 hours ago, Dana Bell said:

 

Hi Pip,

 

I've got the correspondence about the changes, the 1944 cardboard chip, and the post-war metal chip, but I don't have any technical analyses of the colors.  In short, while I've got proof that it happened, I don't have Munsell values that will lead you to accurate matches.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Hi again Dana.

I'd be perfectly satisfied with a qualitative assessment, e.g. the postwar version was slightly more greenish, or whatever. Of course, I understand how less-than-technically precise online pronouncements can morph into "established fact," so I understand if you're wary about offering one.

 

Pip

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Hi Pip,

 

Accepting that I'm more of a color historian than color scientist, I just took the two chips into the backyard at 6:00 pm on an overcast evening.  In that poor light, the post-war chip was darker, stronger, and bluer.  The 1944 chip was grayer and yellower.

 

If I'm home on a bright, sunny day this week, I'll give this a better attempt.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

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3 hours ago, Dana Bell said:

Hi Pip,

 

Accepting that I'm more of a color historian than color scientist, I just took the two chips into the backyard at 6:00 pm on an overcast evening.  In that poor light, the post-war chip was darker, stronger, and bluer.  The 1944 chip was grayer and yellower.

 

If I'm home on a bright, sunny day this week, I'll give this a better attempt.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Terrific, thanks!

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  • 2 weeks later...

FWIW, i am sort of on a continuing quest to find just the right shade of Gloss Sea Blue for a 72nd scale aircraft. I find that most out of the bottle GSBs are either too dark, or too glossy to look right just as-is.

 

A formula i use commonly is a 70-30 mix of Insignia Blue to Gloss Sea Blue (Model Master 35044 + 15042). Insignia Blue by itself will still appear darker than the surrounding Gloss Sea Blue. Another thing i do is use an enamel wash of 16081 Engine gray. Excess seems to "swab" off the surface more easily than a flat engine gray, and it imparts a grayish hue to the blue that lightens it up.... which is the biggest issues on a 72nd scale GSB model anyway.

 

Just for comparison purposes, here's a brief montage of my Gloss Sea Blue Experiments:

 

1) Brewster F3A-1. This was Testors Model Master Gloss Sea Blue, applied over Yestors Yellow Zinc Chromate. I thought the YZC would affect the chroma of the overlying Gloss Sea Blue (It Didn't).

F3A66.jpg

I shot clear flat over the top of the nose and a mix of Tamiya Flat Base + Future over the fabric covered areas to give the model more visual interest. Not sure if its really authentic but it looks good.

F3A67.jpg

DHF3A042.jpg

 

2) Grumman F6F-5N. This was a mistake, where i accidentally mixed 70% Gloss Sea Blue to 30% Insignia Blue. I had the ratios mixed up...

DHF6F-5NPort005A.jpg

DHF6F-5NStbd061.jpg

 

3) Vought F4U-1D. This was the correctly mixed formula of 70% Insignia Blue, and 30% Gloss Sea Blue. Note that the insignia Blue of the roundels is still darker than the Gloss Sea Blue, and i have painted clear flat along the upper nose from the windscreen to the propeller.

DHF4U-1DStbd001A.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa296

/Falcon50EX/F4U-1D/DHF4U-1D013_zps39f468d2.jpg[/IMG]

DHF4U-1D019_zps8cb2b3af-1.jpg

 

4) Goodyear FG-1D. Same Mixing ratio as above, and not quite finished. Had some mishaps with the decals and have had to go back and re-work several times. Not sure if you can see them but this model had the 1" wide walkway lines running along the wing spar and delineating the fabric portions in black.

Decals-16_zpsbf7316e5.jpg

Decals-18_zps9c4b6a43.jpg

 

As some parting thoughts, you can accomplish a lot of realistic scratches with a very sharp Prismacolor pencil; just be careful to keep the tip as sharp as you can; its kind of waxy and it will crumble under pressure. Finally, there is just no substitute for taking your model outside in daylight to see how it looks. GSB has a tendency to appear too dark indoors under incandescent and Fluorescent light.

 

Hope this has been helpful. Good luck in your quest.

 

david

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Hi all,

 

One thing I have noticed over time is that some modelers attempt to weather GSB with a lighter blue; this usually results in a less than authentic looking lighter blue model; as Dana has pointed out, the photos generally show more of a faded or chalky appearance.  I also note from many pictures that the GSB paint often seemed to weather slightly lighter than the stars and bars markings on the upper wing and fuselage.  And finally, I note that many modelers want to add overall light washes in the panel lines, which can easily lead to the toy-like appearance we work hard not to get to.

 

So what to do?  With the basic GSB paint you are using, whatever it's source, I would spray a little silver paint along the leading edges of the wings, tails and vertical fin, and along the wing roots first; this will allow you smooth/scrape off the GSB later to reveal 'bare metal'.  Next, after laying on my GSB and letting it cure, I would take a small amount of the base paint, add just enough lighter gray to see it begin to lighten, and spray a light coat of it over the upper surfaces of the model.  A thin coat without a definite edge is what I'd shoot for.  Next, I would take a medium gray and apply a filter over the upper surfaces.  Filter, meaning a small drop of the gray mixed into an airbrush cup of thinner and sprayed on in quick passes.  I'm shooting to get just a slight change in the tone of the upper surface blue; if I can really see the contrast between before and after, it's too much.  When I think I could use one more pass, I've learned to stop!

 

Now I can apply the usual clear gloss to prep for decals (that is my normal process; you're may vary).  If I haven't made too much of a change in the paint  when I over-coated the decals with clear to seal them in, I can add a tiny amount of the mid-light gray into the clear and use it as a second filter to lighten the upper surfaces and the markings markings; I'll use straight clear to overcoat the lower surfaces.

 

Washes:  I am not a fan of using the same wash for all the various panel lines; it does not look realistic in my view.  Even on dark surfaces, the major panel line joints such as along the removable panels, the engine cowlings, and the control surfaces, will create shadows and appear darker than the surface colors.  I use artist's oils and Naptha (lighter fluid) for my washes, but whatever medium you use, I recommend starting with Payne's Gray (a dark bluish gray) and only add a little straight black.  When applied, I want this wash to be darker than the base paint but not necessarily straight black.  This wash only goes into those main panel lines where there are control surfaces, removable panels, or access hatches.  The places where one panel butts up against another but are not normally removable get a different wash.  I prefer a "general" wash over GSB to be just a little bit lighter that the base paint.  I prefer to start with the Payne's Gray and lighten it up with white or a light tan, just until I can see that it's just barely lighter than the top layer of paint, NOT a light gray or a light tan.  For a final finish, I go for a semi-flat clear overcoat over the whole model, and a really flat clear finish lightly laid on the upper surfaces.

 

One huge caveat:  Do NOT try all this directly on your current project!  Practice a bit first on some scrap (I prefer excess model parts to sheet plastic since they are three dimensional) and see how the look of the GSB changes with different amounts of lighter tones laid over it.  In my case, I am such a slow builder that I often practice my most tried and true finishes on some scrap plastic kit bits before bringing in my current model for the real painting sessions.  There are no silver bullets to be found here, just lots of practice and a fair bit of prior research and some experimenting to find a combination that gets me close to what I see in the pictures.

 

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing how you make out!

 

HTH, Jim

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I have only completed the one GSB airframe..

 

March%202016%20146_zpsujmqepba.jpg

 

I have also gone down the slightly faded GSB route.  I undercoated in aluminium (Halfords Rattle) once hardened I sprayed chromate green primer then the slightly faded Tamiya GSB over the top.  Patched in after with a light touch up of GSB to represent the airframe being touched up.

 

I had used liquid mask around a number of fasteners of the cowling which I subsequently touched in (won't use that technique again).  I also sanded back the GSB to show the primer in some of the high traffic areas and scratched the GSB back to the primer or aluminium in other areas.  There is also a mix of matt and satin finish but it doesn't show in this picture.  Sorry the Aux tank isn't finished yet..

 

I think, due to the conditions, worn paint was quickly patched - so it would be legitimate to have a patchy finish..  BTW if anyone has a picture of JX772 X/119 I would love to see it..  It was reportedly very tatty by July '45.

 

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18 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

  BTW if anyone has a picture of JX772 X/119 I would love to see it..  It was reportedly very tatty by July '45.

 

So would I.  Who said she was very tatty by July 1945?

 

As some consolation there is fleeting film footage of 122/X and poss 123/X, also of Formidable's Hellcat NF flight, at around 2:28 of the DVD "The British Pacific and East Indies Fleets" , which i think is available on Youtube.  My 2012 notes say 122 had no cowling bulges or rocket stubs, a cowling front ring in TSS and possibly a white port aileron.  But we digress. 

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17 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

 

So would I.  Who said she was very tatty by July 1945?

 

 

I remember reading some extract from S/Lt WH Atkinson RCNVR who became an ace in her which stated her as extremely tatty .  Remember that she had already served onboard Indomitable for several months and was one of six cross decked to Formidable when Indomitable went back to Sydney for refit for NF duties.

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3 hours ago, Seahawk said:

As some consolation there is fleeting film footage of 122/X and poss 123/X, also of Formidable's Hellcat NF flight, at around 2:28 of the DVD "The British Pacific and East Indies Fleets" , which i think is available on Youtube.

 

Found it...  it's in three parts on YouTube.  To go back to the original post, there are interesting images of GSB FAA Corsairs and as they go past the camera on their take off run there is a clear metallic shean off the wing root area, clearly indicating that the paint had worn through to the metal..  take a butchers....

 

 

 

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Something i kind of glossed over (no pun intended), is that for my final finish i mix Future (or Johnson's Kleer, or whatever they are calling it nowadays) with Tamiya Flat Base for a semi-gloss finish that "knocks down" the otherwise glossy GSB surface.

 

Another thing i've been doing in the past is to mask off the fabric-covered parts of the Corsair (there are several) and spray those with a slightly flatter finish, resulting in a subtle "two-tone" appearance.

 

I've looked at a lot of pictures to determine if there's a perceivable difference in reflectance between the sheet metal painted and the fabric-doped surfaces, but i haven't reached a definitive position on this.

 

Like i said, it adds visual interest to the model, along with adding scratches, the non-slip walkway areas, stenciling, and the 1" wide walkway lines. Without these elements, Corsair wings look kind of bland and lifeless. One other thing i'm still trying to perfect is the wearing away of paint on the "low spot" where there is a lot of climbing about, resulting in the YZC primer and bare metal showing underneath.....

 

Your Mileage may Vary.

 

-d-

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Getting back to the quest for the perfect Gloss Sea Blue, i have yet to sample the following paints in order to derive test data:

 

1) The old AeroMaster Gloss Sea Blue ( i have a bottle of the stuff)

 

2) Tamiya Lacquer Gloss Sea Blue (the type recommended for the 32nd scale Corsair kit)

 

3) Mr. Paint Gloss Sea Blue

 

Further down the list is the Htaka Gloss Sea Blue, but not a priority right now.

 

I plan to test all of these over a YZC base coat, to try to maintain some uniformity.

 

-d-

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