Why no injected 1:48 Scimitar ?

[Coors54]

16 minutes ago, snowen250 said:

The issue is far more likely to be the limited use of the type in service and lack of colour schemes/operators for different boxings.

 

But surely this applies to the Sea Vixen as well? Primarily DSG and white and FAA operated only (OK, a couple of target tugs not withstanding), but that got tooled. Having one flying must have helped here.

Also the Javelin is not too profuse with different schemes and was arguably a poor performing airframe but again there must have been a good business case for tooling it up.

 

[Guest]

 

"I wanted a 72nd Sopwith Cuckoo but no, I had to put up with a 48th Scimitar! because 3 spoilt *******s on Britmodeller wanted one!"

Edited April 26, 2017 by The Wooksta!
Wahhhhhhhhh!

[snowen250]

30 minutes ago, Coors54 said:

 

But surely this applies to the Sea Vixen as well? Primarily DSG and white and FAA operated only (OK, a couple of target tugs not withstanding), but that got tooled. Having one flying must have helped here.

Also the Javelin is not too profuse with different schemes and was arguably a poor performing airframe but again there must have been a good business case for tooling it up.

 

 

Absolutely, but look over the previous few years. Where have Airfix ever done a new tooling and only released one boxing? (not counting just released things.....we don't know what they have in mind for those yet)

[Denford]

Oh dear, this seems to go on for ever!

Intuition says that some subjects will be harder to tool than others.  Harder equates to more expensive.  I put the Scimitar at the 'harder' end.  Airfix put accuracy and quality tooling to the front and no way would they compromise just because a detail was difficult to tool economically.

Higher costs would matter less if huge, sustained sales were expected due to world wide fame.  Apart from the 'Iconic', 'No line up would be complete without it' etc Brigade, most postings agree that it was something of an 'also ran'. 

To make matters worse there are no credible 'follow on' variants (Whitley, He111, B-17 as examples) nor variations in colour scheme.

To those who say 'What about the TSR2 ?', that Airfix went bankrupt.

To those who say 'But they gave us a Sea Vixen which is not so very much different', I would say that that was 7? years ago and would they do that now?   I think not, and did it make any money?

To those who say 'But what about the Javelin and Swift'?  Both served overseas, both have several colour schemes and Freightdog have thought it worthwhile to issue conversion parts to other Swift variants.  But above all, did they make any money?

The fact that someone gets a hollow laugh (from Airfix) each time they mention it at Telford says it all.  They've surely had it brought up 'ad nauseam' and rejected as many times no doubt for combinations of the above.  That it could be tooled (at a price) and some individuals yearn for it, doesn't make it commercially viable.

In a wider context, there are many, many other 'easier' subjects Airfix have either never tooled (Me410, Beaufort) or are long overdue for retooling (Wellington, Battle) to their current standards.  Enough to keep them going (if Hornby Hobbies stay solvent) for several decades.  No need to tool something as uncertain as the Scimitar.

Don't get me wrong, I'd actually love to see one!  And so long as it is accurate, I don't mind who tools it.  I just don't think it will be Airfix.

[Mike]

I'd love to see everyone get their wish, and see who still wasn't happy... there's bound to be someone

 

The likelihood of X or Y being produced, and saying "they'll never do an X or Y", makes about as much sense as the old chestnut of "the tooling for Z was lost when a container ship it was on sank".  I heard that exact story from someone, repeated as gospel about the Monogram 1:48 B-24J around a year or so before it was repopped.  Oops!

 

We as the consuming public will never know what's coming until someone at the company that is doing the tooling let slip their intentions.  It's all just heresay otherwise, and as usual ends up in a spat between those that want one, and those that don't, but want their own pet project or grail kit instead.  it's somewhat like the 3rd post after the announcement of a kit in one scale is usually "I wish they'd done it in X scale instead/aswell", or worse - "We didn't need one in Y scale, they should have done it in X scale".  Sez who?

[71chally]

2 hours ago, Denford said:

Oh dear, this seems to go on for ever!

Intuition says that some subjects will be harder to tool than others....

Your argument or 'intuition' doesn't stack up.

 

The Scimitar may never be kitted, or maybe it might, none of us here know.  I would never have thought we would see two injection (and one nice vacform) Wyvern kits a few years back.

 

But to base your argument that it won't because of it's shape or lack of schemes just doesn't make sense.

It actually had as many, if not more schemes than the Javelin and Swift FR.5.  There were very distinctive sqn tail markings, a display team scheme and a really nice RAE scheme.

There were three different nose cones, including a photo recon one, with or without AAR probe, drop tanks, Bullpup, Sidewinder missiles, nuclear and conventional bombs - so plenty of load options.

And it also served overseas, in fact all over vast oceans!

 

The shape of it really is not a challenge to a modern kit manufacturer, if Dynavector could produce the excellent result they got, using a vacform machine, then any injection company can.

 

Whether we see one or not, won't be based on schemes or shape. 

 

I'm just kinda hoping that someone at a kit HQs will see a Scimitar picture one day and thinks, damn that looks good!

Mind you that ideal doesn't bode well for a Gannet AEW kit!

Edited April 26, 2017 by 71chally

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

2 minutes ago, 71chally said:

It actually had as many,

I agree.

3 basic schemes..DSG/Sky of the prototypes ,DSG/White and the blue one from West Freugh.

If you factor in Squadron markings then you have at least 9 (excluding station flights and NASU)

Take the variations within that then we have 15 +

 

1 hour ago, Mike said:

see who still wasn't happy..

Exactly!

If the Sopwith Cuckoo was released (and it fits nicely with the Scottish connection!) then somebody would complain because it wasn't a Luftwaffe 1946 or F-16 with flashy gizmos

 

2 hours ago, Denford said:

this seems to go on for ever!

Well we haven't had a replacement for 'The Fruitbat saga'

Hopefully though this won't go to 40 pages.

[pigsty]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

I'd love to see everyone get their wish, and see who still wasn't happy... there's bound to be someone

I've always said, if everyone got exactly everything they said they wanted, someone would still complain that it didn't happen last year.

[viscount806x]

The short answer to the original question is,,,,

 

We want a 1:48 Scimitar because there isn't one and we covet what we can never have. Usually.

 

Having said that, I have enjoyed the very respectful to and fro ing of the discussions and yes I would buy one to show willing just as I would, without hesitation, support a Harvard Mk.I in either scale or a decent new 1:48 Hunter.

 

Well, that's me and here, I have my Paypal ready and waiting for any manufacturer who would care to relieve me of my grandsons inheritance....

 

Nige B

[NAVY870]

10 hours ago, Scimitar said:

 

Well we haven't had a replacement for 'The Fruitbat saga'

Hopefully though this won't go to 40 pages.

 

This ones not doing badly, everybodies playing nicely and I got a free shot at Classic airframe's 

[Truro Model Builder]

18 hours ago, Coors54 said:

 

But surely this applies to the Sea Vixen as well? Primarily DSG and white and FAA operated only (OK, a couple of target tugs not withstanding), but that got tooled. Having one flying must have helped here.

Also the Javelin is not too profuse with different schemes and was arguably a poor performing airframe but again there must have been a good business case for tooling it up.

 

 

With regard to the Sea Vixen, the fact that there has been one flying on the airshow circuit for the last decade or so probably helped with the decision. But as both it and the Javelin are no longer in production after only a few years of availability I think it will be a while before Airfix decide to tool any more 1/48 British jets of the 1950s/1960s any bigger than a Meteor.

 

[Scimitar F1]

I think that is standard practice for them. Make a batch, sell them and then wait until demand returns. They have done the same with the Lightning  several times and the big Mosquito as well.

 

  

[Caerbannog]

25 minutes ago, Scimitar F1 said:

I think that is standard practice for them. Make a batch, sell them and then wait until demand returns. They have done the same with the Lightning  several times and the big Mosquito as well.

 

  

Agree. I think they have to keep their portfolio limited so they do not end up with a stash as some of us do

Surely the bigger sized and thus more expensive kits are not selling in the same numbers as smaller scale (and cheaper) kits do, but I assume that there is a safe market with loyal buyers - and almost no competitor for Brit cold war jets). So I suppose that we will see new releases and re-releases from Airfix and others regularly. Sooner or probably a bit later it will be a Scimitar. Maybe because it will be the last left to be tooled in 1:48... So long I will be looking out for the Dynavector kit.

[AngstROM]

19 hours ago, Andre B said:

And if not Airfix or Emhar why not Xtrakit?

 

Please not like the 1/72 Xtrakit...(starts staring wildly and shaking convulsively while medical staff prepare a large, ominous looking syringe and mutter "I think you had best leave now, Mr.B!").

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

[Ossington 2]

I want a one-thirtytooth A5A Vigilante. The sexy skinny one, not the humpy backed version, though I'd back-convert a RA 5-C kit if I had to. Only 57 A5A's were built, and 42 of those became humpies. Ok, there was some squadron 'color' but all gull gray over white, and no export schemes, for a craft that served briefly and never quite worked. But I still want one!*

 

*Vac-form acceptable! 

[AngstROM]

There is this... but not that. Go figure -meanwhile, I'm writing to The Times! (Dear Sir, Today I heard the first cuckoo...and it's HUGE, etc.)

Edited April 27, 2017 by AngstROM

[Beardie]

Not a Scimitar fan myself as it doesn't have a propellor or multiple wings but I would still like to see one on the shelves for those who are. Every new tooled kit of a previously unkitted or inadequately kitted aircraft is a brilliant addition to the hobby and to people interested in aviation history. Whether it is worthwhile to the bean counters or not or whether it delays the creation of another wonderkit is 'just one of those things'. Every little gap leaves some enthusiast without a model of their pet subject to fondle, study, admire and, with the technology available today, it is likely that most new kits will plug holes in such a way that they won't need to be or can't really be superceded without going into minutiae.

 

It is a golden age of modelling from the standpoint of being able to measure, examine and recreate existing aircraft accurately in scale and, from that standpoint, it is a prime time to snap up subjects that no-one else has done as all the mainstream species are becoming available in kits which make it commercially pointless for other manufacturies to kit them.

 

You may not get your money back first go with that obscure or little known aircraft but it may become a solid seller over the next twenty years and the molds will probably last you 100+ years. There will always be someone, somewhere wanting one.

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

12 hours ago, Beardie said:

 

Not a Scimitar fan myself

 

Don't worry folks..his indoctrination starts on Saturday en-route to Perth!

[Denford]

On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 10:32 PM, Beardie said:

You may not get your money back first go with that obscure or little known aircraft but it may become a solid seller over the next twenty years and the molds will probably last you 100+ years. There will always be someone, somewhere wanting one.

I don' t know what payback time (on their investment) Hornby Hobbies work to: I'll guess 3 years or at the most 5 but 20....?

[71chally]

Though not scimitar related as such, there is a point raised on this thread that I don't quite subscribe to, that is a kit will only be released if it is going to be known instant big seller.

I get that ideally a manufacturer wants to get it's costs of producing a kit back if they can, but there have many releases that have bucked that thinking, Hasagawa XF5U, Matchbox 32nd Sea Venom, 72 Heyford/Stranraer, Special Hobby Balliol, some of the Kittyhawk releases, for example.

Even some of the Airfix releases for this year are quite brave.

There must occasions when manufacturers release a subject, because they like the idea, or look of it.

 

I bet a Scimitar in a nicely illustrated box could sell as well as many more known subjects in the same price/size range, when sat on a shelf in your local shop.

 

Afterall, isn't that why there are Spitfire and F-16 kits - to pay for the interesting releases!

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by 71chally

[Gerrardandrews]

Scimitar Airfix kit idea was something I had a conversation about at Telford last year, apparently Airfix have looked at the idea of tooling a kit, then their problems of 2016, hit them, no Scimitar.

I got the impression from who I was talking to, we are lucky Airfix still about and we have 6 new tools for 2017.

Maybe Airfix should spend a few years tooling up the sellers, keep the money rolling in.

Eduard seem to have the right idea, strange Airfix and Revell haven't tried the same trick, because it works obviously.

Imagine, Top tooling of a Scimitar, masks, decals for most of the aircraft, resin and add ons, a great information instructions, brilliant box art, £65. 1/48.

sell like hot cakes, year later, just kit and decals £35.😊

[Seahawk]

To do that sort of premium boxing at a premium price you need a really top-of-the-range kit to start with.  Frankly I don't think either Airfix or Revell is in that league at the moment.

[Denford]

3 hours ago, 71chally said:

Though not scimitar related as such, there is a point raised on this thread that I don't quite subscribe to, that is a kit will only be released if it is going to be known instant big seller.

I get that ideally a manufacturer wants to get it's costs of producing a kit back if they can, but there have many releases that have bucked that thinking, Hasagawa XF5U, Matchbox 32nd Sea Venom, 72 Heyford/Stranraer, Special Hobby Balliol, some of the Kittyhawk releases, for example.

Even some of the Airfix releases for this year are quite brave.

There must occasions when manufacturers release a subject, because they like the idea, or look of it.

 

I bet a Scimitar in a nicely illustrated box could sell as well as many more known subjects in the same price/size range, when sat on a shelf in your local shop.

 

Afterall, isn't that why there are Spitfire and F-16 kits - to pay for the interesting releases!

 

Remember Hornby Hobbies are deeply in debt, and it is only due to the low interest rate that they haven't gone under.

If I was their Bank Manager I would want solid assurances (ie verifiable Market Research, data from previous sales of similar subjects etc) that money put up for new subjects would be rewarded.  Not merely repaid, but go towards elimination of their debt.

Of the above quoted subjects, XF5U was I think somebody else's moulds re-boxed by Hasegawa.  Matchbox went into liquidation, and of course mistakes are made.

Agree that some Airfix 2017 releases are 'quite brave', but seriously doubt that credit would be extended to HH just because Airfix 'liked the look' of a particular subject.  Others may not have this restraint.

 

[viscount806x]

8 minutes ago, Denford said:

 

If I was their Bank Manager I would want solid assurances

 

 

 

An endangered species in their own right methinks.....