More Malayan Buffalo (& blenheim) colour thoughts

[ClaudioN]

On 30/4/2017 at 0:52 AM, mhaselden said:

The Sky fuselage band was a fair assumption until we saw the colour LIFE images of the 27 Sqn Blenheims. 

 

It would be tempting now to reverse the assumption for the Buffalo, i.e., Sky "equivalent US (Brewster) colour" undersides, with a Sky/Azure Blue band of a similar colour to the 27 Sqn Blenheims. Any thoughts on this?

 

About Belgian Buffaloes, I think roundel positions differed: on AS-serialled machines British roundels were centred exactly on the Belgian ones (e.g., see some oddly "inboard" underwing roundels), whereas on AX-serialled machines positions were different, possibly matching the official camouflage diagram. Is it just me, or...?

[Dave Fleming]

Paul Lucas does some interesting research (he also makes some very nice resin masters), but he is prone to speculative leaps making 5 from 2+2, and putting interpretations on B+W pics based on the tone, inspite of the fact these vary so much (and his previous experience of postulating the low level PR scheme on FR Spits)

[LDSModeller]

4 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

 

It would be tempting now to reverse the assumption for the Buffalo, i.e., Sky "equivalent US (Brewster) colour" undersides, with a Sky/Azure Blue band of a similar colour to the 27 Sqn Blenheims. Any thoughts on this?

 

 

 

I for one very much doubt that the 170 odd Buffalo airframes would be repainted in Sky Blue/Azure Blue on arrival in the Far East, or even in the time period leading up to December 8 1941. I accept the fact that "Sky Blue" may have been used for spinners and fuselage bands.

 

Check out this photo of a 488 Squadron Buffalo (formerly of 67 Squadron) circa October/November 1941, you can see the "Original" Under Wing Stencilling applied over a Duck Egg Blue (Sky Type S) at the the Brewster Factory, above the pilots standing under the Starboard wing.

If Repainted in Sky Blue or even Azure Blue you would see either no Stencils or

the Original stencils including original wing colour, outlined by the newer colour (even on B&W photos I believe there would be a tonal difference).

 

(Photo RNZAF Original - Posted for Illustration only)

 

Now a Caveat

 

One could also argue that during repair (more especially from battle), that RAF/Commonwealth Ground crews "may" have Buffalo undersides  repainted in Sky Blue. The counter arguement to that is the RAF would have sufficient stocks of Duck Egg Blue (Sky Type S) on hand in stores, not to do so.

The above last statement hinges on the availablity of spares/paint during the battle from RAF Stores which was mired in Officious Red Tape/Beaucracey.

Graham Clayton records in his Book "Last Stand in Singapore", that 488 Squadron ground crew during the actual battle for Singapore, crossed through a Japanese convoy to get to the RAF Stores Depot, and having to "Appropriate" a new Air Screw for a Buffalo after they didn't have the correct paperwork according to the Clerk,

and being refused requisition.

 

Thinking about what groundcrews had available (on hand or scrounged). If we go with Sky Blue being on hand to groundcrew to paint Spinners and fuselage bands at squadron/flight level, and becoming more volumous in amounts, as Duck Egg Blue (Sky Type S) became perhaps less available, then it's possible some Buffalo "may" have worn that colour out of necessity.

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited May 2, 2017 by LDSModeller

[GrahamB]

FWIW, I remember building the Tamiya 1/48 Buffalo about 20 years ago in a British scheme (possibly one allocated to the FAA) and decided from photos that the ex-Belgian airframes in, presumably US Dupont, Dark Earth and Dark Green, were modified (added segments) by the addition of MAP DG. The difference in tone was quite distinct. Can't remember the source - possibly just the Squadron book.

[Antti_K]

Hello All,

 

once again a very interesting topic as I have the Tamiya Brewster in the stash.

 

The photo in Allan's post makes me wonder... Is it really a Brewster? Look at the wing: the undercarriage is missing and there seems to be no recess for the wheel either. Also the pitot tube is too close to the fuselage. The wing appears to be too thin.

 

I made a photo comparison but can't get it downloaded to Photobucket for some reason. I will try again later.

 

Best Regards,

Antti

[mhaselden]

Hi Antti,

 

Yes, it's a Buffalo.  It's a crop from a larger photo of 488 Sqn pilots recently arrived in Singapore.  The original photo is in the top right corner of this combined image (sorry but my Google-fu can't find a better copy of the image online):

 

(Source: http://www.arcair.com/Gal3/2101-2200/Gal2141-Buffalo-Chua/00.shtm)

 

Kind regards,

Mark

Edited May 2, 2017 by mhaselden

[Antti_K]

Mark, You are Fast

 

Thank You for the Photo; now I can locate the undercarriage and other details make sense also. My mistake, sorry...

 

Best Regards,

Antti

[mhaselden]

4 hours ago, Antti_K said:

Mark, You are Fast

 

That's a common complaint about me!

[tonyot]

19 hours ago, mhaselden said:

 

That's a common complaint about me!

Just think of Dianne Abbott.....that should make you `less quick'!! 

[mhaselden]

16 minutes ago, tonyot said:

Just think of Dianne Abbott.....that should make you `less quick'!! 

 

Or Nora Batty.   I've been told thinking about Massey Ferguson tractors is also a good technique.

 

In my defence (and trying desperately to steer things back on-topic), I think I've seen pretty much every photo of Far East Buffalos that's out there, although new ones do pop up from time to time (like the great pic of W8210, TD-Y standing on its nose that the AWM posted a while back). 

 

Cheers,
Mark