Suez Centurions, looking for answers

[Antoine]

Hi Guys, 

 

I'm looking for answers about Suez Centurions, all of this being related to a modelling project born a long time ago.

I've always though till a few months ago that they were Mk.3, and now I read here and there that they're Mk.3 upgraded to Mk.5, or just Mk.5. Pics showing them tells about two different gun. So, questions!

 

- Any good paper or internet reference of the tank?

 

- Mk.3 or Mk.5? Or a mix?

 

- Mk.3, I've got a donor AFV club kit, but which accurate Armour conv'? Short hull? Or Long hull?

 

- Mk.5, AFV Club straight from the box, do I need anything else?

 

- And a bit aside, any figurine related to this crisis?

 

Any contribution will be more than welcome.

[Rob G]

There's a Centurion appreciation group on Bookface which seems to have a high number of ex-crew and a lot of people who know a lot of stuff. Might be worth investigating. (If you can't find it I'll look up its actual name.)

[Centaur95]

The only technical/visual difference between a Mk III and a Mk V was the co-ax machine gun (Besa 7.92mm on the Mk III and Browning 7.62mm on the Mk V)The main gun does not define the type. Therefore you could potentially have either the original 20 pounder or the later 20 pounder with the fume extractor at a guess. The turret design did not make a difference the Mark either. The earlier types would not have had the 'long' hull' with the armoured fuel tank - that came in with the Mk VII (I think).

 

Cheers,

Centaur

[Kingsman]

Simon Dunstan's book on the Centurion says the armoured extended fuel tank did indeed come in with the Mk 7.  There are photos in the same book of Mk 5's on the Suez op with both Type A and Type B 20 pdr barrels. I would imagine that most or all the Mk 3's had been converted to 5's by 1956, and I don't imagine any remaining 3's would have been deployed.  New build Mk 5 production began in 1955 and perhaps 150 had been built by the time of the Suez op.

[Centaur95]

There were Cents that had started out as Mk IIIs still in service in 1990 as AVREs - and they wouldn't have been converted to that role until the 60s. You can tell quite easily from the registration codes as several of them had VRNs that were issued to existing vehicles when the army registration system changed in 1949(?).

 

The Cent fleet was upgraded several times over their lifespans and the 'old' vehicles weren't retired unless they were beyond economic repair.

 

Centaur

[MADMUSKY]

On 19/04/2017 at 10:49 PM, Centaur95 said:

The only technical/visual difference between a Mk III and a Mk V was the co-ax machine gun (Besa 7.92mm on the Mk III and Browning 7.62mm on the Mk V)The main gun does not define the type. Therefore you could potentially have either the original 20 pounder or the later 20 pounder with the fume extractor at a guess. The turret design did not make a difference the Mark either. The earlier types would not have had the 'long' hull' with the armoured fuel tank - that came in with the Mk VII (I think).

 

Cheers,

Centaur

 

I agree, but being able to spot the difference between 7.92mm and 7.62mm co-ax  good luck, some people claim if it has an escape hatch at the rear of the turret then it's a Mk3, not so,

Mid production turrets started appearing on Mk3s in 1951

Raised top plate

Rear hatch deleted

Loaders hatch relocated to parallel with the die of the top plate

Combined 2inch bomb thrower and loaders periscope replaced by a single bomb thrower

Over pressure valve continued

Loaders periscope relocated to armoured housing on forward face of turret body

 

Late production Turrets

Appearing from 1954 

Over pressure valve was replaced by a plain blanking plate

2inch bomb thrower deleted

Hard edge turret rear started appearing but there is variations

 

Many Mk3s where brought up to Mk5 standards except for reshaping of the turret roof.

The Mk7 started appearing from 1953 and Mk8 from 1955.

 

Tanks illustrated No5

British Battle Tanks 1945 to present by Simon Dunstan

Has pictures of C Sqn 6 RTR in the Suez and is described as a Mk5 but has none of the above noted attributes?

 

Darren