Are modern 'Remove before flight' tags really over 800 mm long?

[lesthegringo]

Guys, having worked on civil aircraft, I have come across RBF tags on the larger jets, but they have always been about 50cm long max. I have the Eduard 1/48th RBF tags that came with one of the Big Ed sets for the later Harrier series, and they come out at a scale 816mm long. Are they really that length on military aircraft?

 

Cheers

[scotthldr]

One's that I've came across would be at a guess and from memory approx 500mm/50cm long at most,  I've also seen some short ones approx 250mm. RAF Tornado, Jaguar, Harrier etc etc.........

[bzn20]

27 minutes ago, scotthldr said:

One's that I've came across would be at a guess and from memory approx 500mm/50cm long at most,  I've also seen some short ones approx 250mm. RAF Tornado, Jaguar, Harrier etc etc.........

 

Sounds about right to me..The 800 mm plus mentioned is too long

[MiG-Mech]

I read about some tags from F-104, that are longer, coz they were installed in cockpit and the end of the tag should hang out off the cockpit.

[bzn20]

7 hours ago, MiG-Mech said:

I read about some tags from F-104, that are longer, coz they were installed in cockpit and the end of the tag should hang out off the cockpit.

 

That's probably right. Could also be on a long cable so the flag is outside..Some ground locks like up in the main U/C bays,other aircraft have odd places like the one you mentioned and wouldn't not dangle down in plain site. Its standard practise to look at the G/locks pin/bung/blank position to make sure that its removed though, flags can go missing/black with grease and oil or blow up behind things. Final checks that a full set of G/locks are in hand/stowed and signed for removal.

[lesthegringo]

I thought these were too long. They are 17mm long and look completely wrong, and even at 1/32nd scale would come in at 544mm.

 

Can anyone confirm the length of the 1/72nd scale RBF tags Eduard do?

 

Cheers 

[Finn]

Here is a F-104 with RBFs hanging from it:

 

 

Jari

[Andrew Perren]

4 hours ago, lesthegringo said:

I thought these were too long. They are 17mm long and look completely wrong, and even at 1/32nd scale would come in at 544mm.

 

Can anyone confirm the length of the 1/72nd scale RBF tags Eduard do?

 

Cheers 

I don't know the length but I have used the 1/72 eduard tags on 1/48 builds plenty of times and to my eye they look more in scale.

[Sky dancer]

Hi there,

 

I can only speak for the RBF tags used by the R.A.F. in the eighties, not sure which generation of Harrier you are modelling.

 

RBF tags came in a variety of sizes and are scaled to the size of the airframe. Something like Nimrod or VC-10 would use large RBF's, and yes, they could be up to a metre long.

 

Have long since lost the couple that I had, but this listing on a well known auction site shows the sizes and patterns available:- 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Remove-Before-Flight-Flags-30cm-to-1-Metre-Length-7-5-to-8cm-Width-Used-/132154949829?var=&hash=item1ec50c80c5:m:mdbtZB7R9aLOPKmA2ADgEkA

 

The ones in the above listing show the RBF's in a realistic state, rather than the pristine condition supplied by Eduard. The only time you get a clean RBF is when it is out of the packet!

 

Hope that helps,

Michael

Edited April 18, 2017 by Sky dancer
spelling!

[bzn20]

1 hour ago, Sky dancer said:

RBF tags came in a variety of sizes and are scaled to the size of the airframe. Something like Nimrod or VC-10 would use large RBF's, and yes, they could be up to a metre long.

 

VC10's ground lock/bungs/blanks/Pitot flags are somewhere between  6" and 2 foot long or in French 150mm-600mm max. They can vary between individual aircraft of the same type too, some are longer than others doing the same job. Never had to think of them before as all you need is a lock or blank etc. not bothered about the length of flag.

The first batch of flags in the 60s were very long and got shorter as time went on. EG early Pitots flags were nearer 3 foot long ,in the end about 6-12 inches  (only two white stripes!) and anything between. 

Some were plain red, some red with Remove Before Flight printed on, some red and white 45 degree striped, red and silvery white stripes, red and grey stripes.  Silvery white and grey is reflective and they all are filthy with Skydrol, grease etc.and tatty after a while. Not even sure if there is an actual length laid down . Some will have the kite's serial number on it too

The Aircraft Vol 3 ( or civvy IPC ) or even the RAF Stores Vocabulary AP1086 (which will be for any aircraft) calls up a Section/ref No and that's what you get or the Trimmers can make them locally.

So two foot would probably be good enough to be honest, nobody is going to say that flag is wrong because there hasn't been a hard and fast length or even design/style that you can get bolted down as absolutely correct .

Never knew there was so much to Ground Lock Flags. Remember to fit /remove then forget . Never want to think about them again either.

[Sky dancer]

Lesthegringo,

 

Sorry to disturb again, but there was something about the Eduard RBF flags that didn't seem quite right.

 

I don't have a set to measure the scale dimensions, but here is a quick guide of the real RBF flag dimensions. I suggest that you check your references/photograph etc. and count the number of stripes on the flag to gauge the length you should use:-

 

30 cm long - 1 stripe - white (have never seen 1 x silver)

46 cm long - 2 x stripes (2x white, or 1 x white & 1 x silver reflective) 

58 cm long - 3 x stripes (3 x white, or white/silver reflective/white)

80 cm long - 4 x stripes (4 x white, or white/silver reflective/white/silver reflective)

100 cm long - 5 x stripes (5 x white, or white/silver reflective/white/silver reflective/white)

 

White always appears to be closest to the ringed end - although these can also have pins or bungs. Also, the all white striped versions may be of older vintage.

 

Please note that this rough guide refers to UK military RBF flags only.

 

In summary, it appears to me that Eduard have the scale dimensions right, but the markings may be wrong - but I am unable to confirm this without actually having a set to hand.

 

All the best,

Michael.

 

 

[bzn20]

3 minutes ago, Sky dancer said:

Michael.

See above your last comment/post

[Sky dancer]

BZN20,

 

As you say, never knew there was no much to these things!

 

I do remember a certain pilot (who flew Vampires and Meteors) telling me that back in the day the RBF for the pitot tube was so long was that it was supposed to be looped over the top of the leading edge of the wing - pretty sure he mentioned late model Spitfires - so that the pilot could see that it was/wasn't in place.

 

The only abiding memory I have of RBF flags concerns the Bulldog. A gizmo was supposed to attach the velcro strips on the instrument panel to cover the artificial horizontal and direction indicator to allow "limited panel" procedures to be practised. On one certain flight, said gizmo could not be found. QFI produces pitot cover with attached RBF, rolls some of the flag around pitot cover and then wedges it between the bottom of the coaming and the lights on the panel. Hey presto, RBF then covers both the required instruments.

 

Was sworn to secrecy, lest the chief instructor have kittens........

 

Suppose it's safe to disclose now, after all these years....

 

M

[Bell209]

They do come in different lengths, depending on the use. The little keyring sized ones you can buy are about the size used for practice bomb safeties on the fuse end but I've used others close to a metre long. Different nationalities use different lengths, too and they come in plastic, cloth (most common) and metal (least common) and a variety of colours from red, through dayglow to striped.

[bzn20]

5 hours ago, Bell209 said:

They do come in different lengths, depending on the use. The little keyring sized ones you can buy are about the size used for practice bomb safeties on the fuse end but I've used others close to a metre long. Different nationalities use different lengths, too and they come in plastic, cloth (most common) and metal (least common) and a variety of colours from red, through dayglow to striped.

 

I deliberately didn't mention weapons, ejector seats etc.  RBFs as I spent all my time on transport kites although I should have said that in my post. Pretty sure they'll use the ones fitted at the factory.

[Winnie]

on the intake plugs of my 212 the streamers are about 80 cm long, I can remove them without climbing up.

 

Cheers

H.