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Absolute Beginner - Preshading - must it be black?


BIG X

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Hi Everyone - I'm a newbie & even more of a newbie to airbrushing.  I am in the first testing stages with my first airbrush & need your help & advice.  I have been doing some testing with "pre-shading" panel lines.  Everything I have seen so far seems to use black paint for this.  My first tests are not a total failure - BUT...

 

The black seems very hard to cover - compared to the fantastic results I have seen on here -so the question is - MUST IT BE BLACK???

 

I am doing WWII aircraft - Luftwaffe & RAF - would a dark shade of grey be better for me, as I don't want to attempt a "tinted" colour - such as dark blue for a light blue underside.

 

In short - HELP - PLEASE - :please: 

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I originally made the mistake of making the pre-shading lines too heavy. I'm far from an expert, but try making the paint thinner and spray the lines so that they aren't sharply defined (if you see what I mean). I't works for me anyway. If Neil thinks that black is the way to go, then it probably is.

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Yes its true that black can be too stark sometimes and takes alot of covering, especially with lighter colours as you say.

 

I have experimented with other colours in the past with varying results. They can affect/influence the top colour too much sometimes.

Example - I once preshaded an underside (to be rlm 76) with a dark blue.

This Made the 76 light blue too strong and intense along the panel lines. So much that re-did the whole thing. 

 

So now I just keep preshading with neutral colours - differing shades of grey to almost black depending on how dark the actual surface colour is going to be. 

 

My latest thing (copied from the magazines/web) is to prime with a grey, then add preshading/highlighting with black and/or white along lines and in centre of panels, then thin coats of the surface colour allowing all the work to show through. 

 

Page 5 here in this WIP shows this technique on an f-16.

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235014726-72nd-quattro-cj-have-glass-tamiya-n-aggressor-hasegawa-revell-c-lonestar-academy-kf-16c-completed-rfi-links-now-added/&page=5

 

Hope this helps, Tony

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Thanks everyone - it's most appreciated - I may try some dark grey lines as an alternative (rather than any other colours) - I am using grey primed mineral water bottles at present - so nothing lost.

 

I guess "keep it neutral" is the key - a lesson learned !!!

 

I will also try to go for thinner lines too - mine are bit thick at present - not too defined though - as when I try that they end up all "wiggly" - old age is a wonderful thing - shaky hands. Practice Practice Practice.

 

Tony - your technique sounds very advanced - I'm ultra impressed - it's something for me to aspire to :) I will give it a go though - thanks for the sound advice.

 

Cheers everyone,

Steve

 

 

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Oh Wow Tony - I see what you men...

 

image.jpg

 

Your work is amazing - I am inspired though - Thanks for this inspiration - you are a GOD!!!

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2 hours ago, FalkeEins said:

..black works just fine for me especially under typical Luftwaffe lower surface colours     (....neat 'handle' by the way..)

 

Thanks for the informal like about my 'handle' - I have always been a big fan of the movie - "The Great Escape" - but it was only when I came to research a build on a 92sqn Spitfire that I discovered the full story of Sqn Ldr Roger Bushell (Roger Bartlett - Richard Attenborough - in the movie) - what an amazing man & what an inspiring yet sad story - amazing people - amazing courage!

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Alternatively don't do it.  It is incredibly rare to see real aircraft with dark lines round just about every panel.  I cat still remember seeing a perfectly good TSR2 in anti-flash white with every panel outlined in black: it looked like a 3-D general arrangement drawing.

 

I was lucky enough to get close under XH672 at RAF Cosford and the panels under the wing, for example, looked like they'd been drawn on lightly with an H or, at most, HB pencil from a distance of around six feet.  At a realistic viewing distance on a 1/72nd model they'd be practically invisible.

 

Similarly it is very, very rare to see the centre of a panel on a full-sized aircraft faded more than its edges: the whole panel is, generally, painted at the same time and will, therefore, experience the same type and degree of weathering.  I know that there are exceptions and I have seen pictures of a Buccaneer where part of one panel had been spray painted and the remainder of the panel brush or roller painted.  I know it's your model but pre-shading and panel line washes and so forth don't do it for me.  Too often the results look like refugees from the station fire dump.  I'll get back under my rock now.....

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I think its over done too and probably should not have been done on most of the things I've seen on BM. Pre shading done to the Nth degree but if they go for the weathered look....nobody does oil streaks, toilet charging point streaks and water drain/rain streaks on the bottom C/L fuse. Streaks off panel corners, circular marks left by oily  ground lock flags/Bungs etc. (red n white Remove Before Flight) The dirtiest thing I ever saw was a VC10 K2,it was a pig pit. But not a pre shaded panel type join to be seen, they don't really exist. Shaded joins make no sense to me. The edges can get slightly dirtier through ground crews dirty hands on the edges through screwing them on or off and general handling but they are patchy not straight ish line. Airflow streaking are another thing. The Factory joins, like span wise wing lines, fuse frame lines don't get removed. IMO

 

Pre shading is a bit Marmite but on the other hand Marmite is real...

I have a rock to get under too..!

 

 

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1 hour ago, stever219 said:

At a realistic viewing distance on a 1/72nd model they'd be practically invisible.

 

 I know it's your model but pre-shading and panel line washes and so forth don't do it for me. 

 

Ah the old 'invisible in scale panel lines' argument.

We might as well go back to carving models out of wood or soap bars rather than enhancing hours of someone's CAD design and tooling? 

 

Well sorry, but plain, solid colour toy like scale models don't do it for me...

 

Good job we are all different 👍🏿

 

52 minutes ago, bzn20 said:

I think its over done too and probably should not have been done on most of the things I've seen on BM.

 

 

 

Other forums are available 👍🏿

 

It's fortunate we dont all like the same things otherwise it would be a boring world...

 

The poor lad asked what colour to use for pre-shading, not whether he should do it or not?

 

I don't mind a bit of preshading or post highlighting whatever you want to call it.

And I do agree that sometimes it can be overdone...

 

But in general it can add interest to what would be an otherwise very boring, plain and toy like looking model.

 

Also in life with most things not just modeling you tend to find that people don't like something because they can't do it themselves...

 

But see my comment above about  us all liking the same stuff.

 

 

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Its just my opinion and experience. Making it look interesting is good, that comes into Artistic Licence territory. I'd never put down a model which is usually excellent because its been 'shaded either. Nothing to do with all liking the same stuff, it either exists or it doesn't. Like I said previously and at the beginning of this comment Just my opinion...The remark I made about seeing on shading on BM isn't a slur against this place.

 

I only come on BM. Its more than enough ,nothing compares to it....Love BM.

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42 minutes ago, bzn20 said:

Nothing to do with all liking the same stuff, it either exists or it doesn't.

 

Of course it does!

 

It doesn't have to be real for people to like it - look at religion :) 

 

I'm sure people that like preshaded models realise they don't look exactly like that in real life. Its just an easy/quick way to show a faded/worn paintjob. Rather than leaving a model in the garden for 5 years. A suggestion of the real thing? 

 

Anyways we are getting off topic and hijacking matey's thread. 

 

Anyone else have suggestions for preshading colours? 

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A lively debate folks - the heart & soul of a good forum.  Thanks a million for the comments.

 

I'm still very much at the learning stage.  Up to now with first brushes & then rattle cans.

 

I haven't done any shading or weathering yet & I agree that both can be overdone - but I want to give both a go as they can look good too.

 

So - how about dark sea grey? :) 

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4 hours ago, BIG X said:

So - how about dark sea grey? :) 

 

That should work.

 

But why dont you save that for things that are that colour? 

 

Instead just use black and white, a couple drops mixed to make a grey and go from there. Then you can do some areas differently by adding more white to lighten it and lastly add some black to finish with a darker grey. Just mix into the cup as you go along. That way you will have some variation with the preshading to make it interesting so they dont look like all uniform/darkened panel lines under the top coat... 

 

Tony

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5 hours ago, BIG X said:

 

 

So - how about dark sea grey? :) 

 

Can I turn my previous comment about black lines on its head please?  

 

Having seen black panel lines on white models I've never seen white panel lines on black or US Sea Blue models to"enhance hours of someone's CAD design & tooling".  That said I have discussed this topic on a number of occasions with friends, one of whom is an airframe fitter, over nothing more incendiary than a large coffee and consensus has been reached that a very slightly darkened shade of the base colour is closest to reality (other realities are available).  I appreciate that this is great on a monotone scheme like overall anti-flash White, but a screaming nightmare (other nightmares are available) on one of the Italian or German mottle schemes for instance.

 

if you're still at the experimental stage try using pencils to delineate, for example, frequently removed panels or joints where dirt does collect, despite the best efforts of people like my friend and bzn20 to reduce or prevent it.  I think Tony O'Toole used this technique very effectively on a 1/72nd Halifax IIRC.  Good quality pencils with sharp points and applied lightly to an engraved panel line can be very subtle and can be built up in a number of passes; I prefer H or HB grades, with an occasional foray into B or 2B.  Mistakes can also be easier to deal with than if using paint for this.

 

I'm sorry that some at least of my original post appears to have been misinterpreted; it's probably my fault for having composed it at the end of a long day and without a thinking head installed as opposed to the usual cabbage, but hopefully I've now added something constructive.  Go have a play, like we all have, and see what works best for you.

 

Sorry, this has crossed with Tony Oliver's post above.

Edited by stever219
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I sometimes use it, along with other techniques depending on my mood. I work on the principle that the model surface does not accurately replicate the real thing and thus does not scatter light in a fashion similar to the real thing. To that end, techniques which add some tonal variance to the paint colour are a good thing HOWEVER if it's obvious which technique has been used then it's a fail by my book. Subtlety is the key. When pre-shading, that might mean a couple more passes with the top colour coat. If black basing instead, then same answer really.

 

It's at its best when you look at it afterwards and think "well that was a waste of time". It wasn't, it would be more conspicuous by its absence on a totally flat finish.

 

To sum up - it shouldn't really matter what colours you use for your pre-shading, because the top colour coats should be sufficient to almost eliminate it. To that end, just use black and white to keep things simple. I'd also suggest not limiting yourself to religiously following the kit's panel lines. You're trying to create an ever-so-subtle unevenness to the paint colour overall that suggests a miniature facsimile of something you may gaze upon out in the real world, not suggest that the paint has faded worse in the middle of the panels than the edges. :)

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1 hour ago, stever219 said:

Having seen black panel lines on white models I've never seen white panel lines on black or US Sea Blue models to"enhance hours of someone's CAD design & tooling".  

 

First time for everything, heres one for you to see mate 👍🏿 Light grey (almost white) panel line wash. Enhances detail and 'fades' the overall look. I'm not the first one to do this however. No preshading on this build though. Just some random scribbles with a lighter blue to add interest/variation to monotone scheme. 

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235015189-172-eduard-f6f-5n-hellcat-nightfighter-weekend-7434/

 

Hope this helps :) 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Oliver said:

 

That should work.

 

But why dont you save that for things that are that colour? 

 

Instead just use black and white, a couple drops mixed to make a grey and go from there. Then you can do some areas differently by adding more white to lighten it and lastly add some black to finish with a darker grey. Just mix into the cup as you go along. That way you will have some variation with the preshading to make it interesting so they dont look like all uniform/darkened panel lines under the top coat... 

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the sound advice

Steve

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Oh - by the way folks - this airbrushing lark is learning to write all over again :lol:  I never knew I couldn't follow a straight line. :lol::lol::lol:

 

:work: - Practice - Practice - Practice.

 

This is a ton of fun ;)

 

Thanks for the encouragement & ideas folks.

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I’m trying to search for a forum post or Youtube vid where an aircraft modeller used all sorts of colours for preshading. Reds, blues, black, you name it. 

 

There’s this one http://otakurevolution.com/content/laymans-gunpla-guide-preshading-tutorial 
It’s Sci-Fi Gundam robot stuff, but still relevant. 

 

And this one http://www.saint-ism.com/2009/09/gunpla-modelling-preshading/

 

Mart
 

Edited by LotusArenco
Brainfart
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33 minutes ago, LotusArenco said:

I’m trying to search for a forum post or Youtube vid where an aircraft modeller used all sorts of colours for preshading. Reds, blues, black, you name it. 
 

 

Heres one for you...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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