Harrier GR.1 to GR.9

[Courageous]

Thanks again guys for your help.

Update: Gr.5- Airfix GR.9 with Quickboost nose.

 

12 hours ago, Aardvark said:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56081&highlight=

http://scalemodels.ru/articles/9474-Airfix-1-72-BAe-Harrier-GR-7A.html

there are a lot of problems...

Serge- As I have said early, I'm not wanting to spend time, money to get a near perfect model. Is their a lot of work to correct the Airfix GR.9? So what are the problems with the Airfix GR.9?

 

Stuart

[Truro Model Builder]

The only 'operational' use of the ferry tips was when the School of Aircraft Handling at RNAS Culdrose had ex-RAF GR.3s. When Joint Force Harrier was set up and there was a need to train deck crew to handle the GR.7 a number of SAH GR.3s were fitted with the ferry tips so as to better simulate the GR.7s. Seemingly trainee aircraft handlers became quite adept at making sure they didn't bang their heads on the extended wingtips when dodging around them.

 

[Aardvark]

8 hours ago, stever219 said:

 

The original Airfix GR. 5 kit contained four separate noses for early versions of the second-generation Harrier, so no cutting needed.  I was not aware of the Quickboost conversion.

 

I didn't know that Airfix GR.5 there two noses! And in what a difference between an early nose of GR.5 and a late nose of GR.5?

 

3 hours ago, Courageous said:

Serge- As I have said early, I'm not wanting to spend time, money to get a near perfect model. Is their a lot of work to correct the Airfix GR.9? So what are the problems with the Airfix GR.9?

Stuart

Discussion was long ago therefore to be exact I should re-read all 10 pages of a branch about construction of that Harrier again.
The colleague Kelly Johnson very carefully approaches questions as the geometrical accuracy of a prototype and its detailing in what you can will be convinced having looked at his ended building of F-94B:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48019&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

and the building of F3D Skyknight which is conducted now:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63646&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If I am not brought by memory that is about remeasured nozzles and therefore about increased more than it is necessary their fairing. But my memory can bring me therefore let's me find it in a branch.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

By the way, I have Hasegava Harrier GR.5 and GR.7 (Revell a re-box) together with aftermarket (including GR.5 nose from Quickboost) and also Harrier GR.7/9 from Airfix. If you accept comparative filming from the mobile phone that I can make them later certain time.

[stever219]

2 hours ago, Aardvark said:

 

I didn't know that Airfix GR.5 there two noses! And in what a difference between an early nose of GR.5 and a late nose of GR.5?

 

 

I think you have misunderstood me: the GR. 5 only ever had one type of nose.  The old Airfix kit had optional noses for GR. 5, GR. 7, AV-8B and T. 10 on one of the "common parts" sprues.

[Aardvark]

23 minutes ago, stever219 said:

 

I think you have misunderstood me: the GR. 5 only ever had one type of nose.  The old Airfix kit had optional noses for GR. 5, GR. 7, AV-8B and T. 10 on one of the "common parts" sprues.

Sorry! I really have misunderstood you! Thanks for the explanation!

 

B.R.

Serge

[shatters]

10 hours ago, Hook said:

 

AFAIK the ferry tips were never fitted operationally. The only instance they were used I'm aware of was the 1969 Transatlantic Race.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

 

Were they not fitted on ferry flights to Belize  ?

 

Phil

[Selwyn]

Jets that went to Belize  normally went out in the back of a hercules IIRC.

 

The extended tips were never used, in fact in all my time working on GR3 T2/4 I never ever heard anyone mention them,and never personally saw one, let alone one fitted! I suspect there was only ever one set used for the air race, Obviously not a successful modification!

Saw Spencer Pollards build  in the latest Model aircraft international, this week, shook my head at that one, a Lovely 20 Sqn  Harrier T bird model marred for me a bit by iffy research. He had fitted the mythical extended tips, and the long EJ seat straps that were not fitted to Harrier till four years after 20 sqn re-equipped with Jaguar!

 

Selwyn

 

 

[stever219]

21 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

Jets that went to Belize  normally went out in the back of a hercules IIRC.

 

The extended tips were never used, in fact in all my time working on GR3 T2/4 I never ever heard anyone mention them,and never personally saw one, let alone one fitted! I suspect there was only ever one set used for the air race, Obviously not a successful modification!

Saw Spencer Pollards build  in the latest Model aircraft international, this week, shook my head at that one, a Lovely 20 Sqn  Harrier T bird model marred for me a bit by iffy research. He had fitted the mythical extended tips, and the long EJ seat straps that were not fitted to Harrier till four years after 20 sqn re-equipped with Jaguar!

 

Selwyn

 

 

 

I've seen one photo of a GR. 3 in wrap-round camouflage with 330-gallon underwing tanks, AAR probe and extended wingtips; it's in the colour section of the Ian Allan "Modern Combat Aircraft" volume on the type and I've never seen it reproduced elsewhere.  I wonder if it was a pre-Belize trial fit.

[71chally]

14 hours ago, Selwyn said:

Jets that went to Belize  normally went out in the back of a hercules IIRC.

The initial complement of GR.1s were ferried out under their own power in Oct 1975 by AAR and staging through America, as did the GR.3s in 1977 via a massive Victor AAR mission.

 

Harriers Pegasus engines were carried in the back of Belfasts for the initial det, but until now I've never heard of Harriers being transported inside Hercules, must have been a tight fit.

 

The wingtip extensions used for the Transatlantic race Harriers were much shorter than the 'standard' ferry wing tip extensions.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by 71chally

[Hook]

20 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Harriers Pegasus engines were carried in the back of Belfasts for the initial det, but until now I've never heard of Harriers being transported inside Hercules, must have been a tight fit.

 

 

Indeed:

 

http://ukmamsoba.org/IB26_large.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[71chally]

T7Models is correct about some of the SAH Harriers having the extensions fitted, some nice shots of ZD667 here (Scott Rathbone Flickr)

 

 

[Seahawk]

14 hours ago, stever219 said:

 

I've seen one photo of a GR. 3 in wrap-round camouflage with 330-gallon underwing tanks, AAR probe and extended wingtips; it's in the colour section of the Ian Allan "Modern Combat Aircraft" volume on the type and I've never seen it reproduced elsewhere.  I wonder if it was a pre-Belize trial fit.

 

Seems to have disappeared from my 2nd revised version 1984.  Closest I can find is (p.56) colour photo of a 1 Sq Harrier GR.3, apparently in wrapround, on return from a squadron exchange in Italy: large ferry tanks on inner pylons (still with LAG undersides), 100 gall tanks on outers but no probe and no extended wingtips.

[71chally]

Thanks Andre', that must have been a slim fit, especially passing the Herc U/C well area!

[Selwyn]

6 hours ago, 71chally said:

The initial complement of GR.1s were ferried out under their own power in Oct 1975 by AAR and staging through America, as did the GR.3s in 1977 via a massive Victor AAR mission.

 

Harriers Pegasus engines were carried in the back of Belfasts for the initial det, but until now I've never heard of Harriers being transported inside Hercules, must have been a tight fit.

 

The wingtip extensions used for the Transatlantic race Harriers were much shorter than the 'standard' ferry wing tip extensions.

 

Dead easy fit with the wings off!

Just a thought, did they put extensions on the SAH aircraft to simulate the GR 9 wingtips? 

 

Selwyn

Edited April 19, 2017 by Selwyn

[71chally]

That's what T7Models says earlier, seems a good way of doing things.

Interesting though that those wingtips were still around.

[tempestfan]

Stupid question : As the GR. 5 by Esci never ever even gets mentioned when Harriers are discussed, I assume it doesn't even stand comparison to the contemporary Italeri kit - given that the Esci appeared when they were already on a downward slope and missed the standard set by themselves a couple years earlier by some margin? 

[Hook]

9 minutes ago, tempestfan said:

Stupid question : As the GR. 5 by Esci never ever even gets mentioned when Harriers are discussed, I assume it doesn't even stand comparison to the contemporary Italeri kit - given that the Esci appeared when they were already on a downward slope and missed the standard set by themselves a couple years earlier by some margin?

 

Yes, the ESCI was even worse than the Italeri kit. Hard to believe that the same brand made the lovely GR.1 / AV-8A / Sea Harrier.

 

See:

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4244-revell-harrier-gr5/

 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Albert RN]

On 18/04/2017 at 8:33 PM, Selwyn said:

Jets that went to Belize  normally went out in the back of a hercules IIRC.

 

The extended tips were never used, in fact in all my time working on GR3 T2/4 I never ever heard anyone mention them,and never personally saw one, let alone one fitted! I suspect there was only ever one set used for the air race, Obviously not a successful modification!

Saw Spencer Pollards build  in the latest Model aircraft international, this week, shook my head at that one, a Lovely 20 Sqn  Harrier T bird model marred for me a bit by iffy research. He had fitted the mythical extended tips, and the long EJ seat straps that were not fitted to Harrier till four years after 20 sqn re-equipped with Jaguar!

 

Selwyn

 

 

 

Spencer's model is accurate, his T.2 being modelled following this image of what is beleived to be the only T.2 to have been fitted 'in service' with both extended tips and 330 Gal tanks, the aircraft beeing seen in 20 Squadron markings on its way to an exercise. His research is fully in keeping with this image and the details supplied during the six months of the build by the Harrier SIG.

 

http://oi66.tinypic.com/spk8d0.jpg

Edited April 24, 2017 by Albert RN

[Selwyn]

4 hours ago, Albert RN said:

 

Spencer's model is accurate, his T.2 being modelled following this image of what is beleived to be the only T.2 to have been fitted 'in service' with both extended tips and 330 Gal tanks, the aircraft beeing seen in 20 Squadron markings on its way to an exercise. His research is fully in keeping with this image and the details supplied during the six months of the build by the Harrier SIG.

 

http://oi66.tinypic.com/spk8d0.jpg

I stand corrected on the wingtips. Strange the SIG did not pick up on the wrong seat straps?

 

Selwyn

[Albert RN]

32 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

I stand corrected on the wingtips. Strange the SIG did not pick up on the wrong seat straps?

 

Selwyn

 

You were wrong about the wingtip so maybe you're wrong about the seat straps too.

 

Look forward to seeing your 1/24 conversion where you get them right.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Albert RN

[Radleigh]

On ‎18‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 8:33 PM, Selwyn said:

Jets that went to Belize  normally went out in the back of a hercules IIRC.

 

The extended tips were never used, in fact in all my time working on GR3 T2/4 I never ever heard anyone mention them,and never personally saw one, let alone one fitted! I suspect there was only ever one set used for the air race, Obviously not a successful modification!

Saw Spencer Pollards build  in the latest Model aircraft international, this week, shook my head at that one, a Lovely 20 Sqn  Harrier T bird model marred for me a bit by iffy research. He had fitted the mythical extended tips, and the long EJ seat straps that were not fitted to Harrier till four years after 20 sqn re-equipped with Jaguar!

 

Selwyn

 

 

 

You must have moved around a lot to work on all the Harriers to have seen this. In 8 years of being in the RAF, 3 years of them working on Gr.7/9's, I worked on 28 and only saw the ones at Cottesmore and Wittering, and even then some escaped me. God knows how you checked their straps, wingtips etc and made note. Did you do any work??

[Shane]

38 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

I stand corrected on the wingtips. Strange the SIG did not pick up on the wrong seat straps?

 

Selwyn

 

Actually, you were schooled on the wingtips. If you intend to go all absolutist on anything, you want to actually be right, or we might just suspect that the other bits are wrong as well.

 

Shane

[Dave Fleming]

51 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

I stand corrected on the wingtips. Strange the SIG did not pick up on the wrong seat straps?

 

Selwyn

 

Probably because we (at least I, not sure about Nick or the others that also helped with references) didn't know that! Always useful to have new information. So presumably they changed circa 1980?

 

regarding the wingtip extensions, not sure if the Transatlantic ones were a different shape, photos seem to show the same shape as the ones ordered for service. They did test a fibreglass one, but it was the same shape as the metal ones, and all the drawings show the same shape. There are a surviving pair at Dunsfold that belong to G-VTOL. 

 

They were available if wanted,  however the time taken to remove them and refit the standard ones, combined with the fact you needed to wait until the standard ones arrived in the back of a Herc or similar to engage in combat ops negated any advantage the slight improvement in range they offered. Easier to just IFR more often.

 

Dave

[Dave Fleming]

On 18/04/2017 at 9:00 PM, stever219 said:

 

I've seen one photo of a GR. 3 in wrap-round camouflage with 330-gallon underwing tanks, AAR probe and extended wingtips; it's in the colour section of the Ian Allan "Modern Combat Aircraft" volume on the type and I've never seen it reproduced elsewhere.  I wonder if it was a pre-Belize trial fit.

 

I suspect that's the trials aircraft that was fitted with the fibreglass tip

[Dave Fleming]

On 16/04/2017 at 8:34 PM, stever219 said:

Expanding on Richard's post the GR. 1 entered service with Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey upper surfaces with Light Aircraft Grey undersides, all colours being gloss.  National markings in eight positions, upper and lower wing surfaces, air intake walls and fin, were the post-war standard 1:2:3-proportioned red, white and blue respectively in bright colours.  Please note that the blue is not BS381C:105 Roundel Blue but is darker and richer, around BS381c:110 IIRC.

 

 

110 IS Roundel Blue, and that was the specified colour on the paint shop diagrams. Most modern decals are too dark.