longshanks Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 50 minutes ago, Ray S said: gold wire from Hobbycraft Now that's what I call taking an idea forward Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Hello all. I have had a few days of sand/fill/sand as I tried to get the stern to the correct shape. The Milliput was rather rough, but I managed to sand it into some form of shape, then used three or four extra layers of Perfect Plastic Putty to get the shape smooth. I put less on in the latter stages, and used various grits of sanding paper and sticks. I finally sprayed it with Halfords Filler/Primer, a lovely shade of yellow and it does not look too bad. The lines are not quite right, but I think they are close enough for me. There should be another 'kink' in the lines near where the rudder is due to go, but I am leaving it as it is. Next up will be sanding this filler down to try and smooth out the rest of the hull, then fit two rows of beading along the hull and possibly try plating it by using masking tape and primer, followed by removing the tape and ending up with slightly raised primer stripes. I also need to scribe in the 'wash plates' that seem to be on the plan. they are not open ports on this, and seem to be under deck level. Not necessarily in that order... Thanks for looking, Ray 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Coming on....... I doubt whether your 'Kink' is going to show when you get it in / on the water. Have you tried Halfords Davids ISOPON P38 Easy Sand filler. Adheres to most things inc wood & plastic. Nice an easy to work Halfords Filler/Primer is a great aid in cleaning up ... Will be good to see how your plating turns out. Kev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Watching with great interest. Love the subject too. Keep 'muddling' along, this is going to come out really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Along with Kev's Puffer and Paul's attack craft, this one of my favourite builds in this section of the forums. Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Hello all. Kev, I have used the Isopon, but have run out at the moment. I had good results with it but I think I still needed to practice more. I was able to fit a couple of beads along the hull sides. They are .8mm half round strip - the upper one went all round the hull, I needed to have a small section to go round the transom but it went round the curve easily. The lower one I ended just where the lines change near the aft end and I will chamfer the edge to make it look more natural. I had problems trying to curve it round the compound curve under the stern so I have left it like this. The beads stuck down quite nicely with Tamiya Extra Thin. The washplates I decided would stand slightly proud of the hull sides, I used some 10 thou card for these, and fitted them with a dab of glue and the aid of a damp wooden cocktail stick to position them. They are about 1.5mm x .5mm in size. Then I added strips of 2mm masking tape along the hull and sprayed some Halfords White primer over the hull sides, twice. This is what it looks like just now, I just have to sand down some of the edging (but not too much). This should hopefully show better when I have given the ship the first proper coats of paint, hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for looking, and for the comments and encouragement - always appreciated. Ray 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 Hello all! Today's work has been going reasonably well. The first thing I needed to do was make the 'bulwarks' at the bow. These were fairly short, and I initially made them with 10 thou card. I cut out small rectangles of card, held them together in a pair of self-closing tweezers and sanded them to shape. Then I did them again as the first lot did not look right Having done that, I glued them to the bow and let them set. Then I realised that I had not taken into account the sheer, so they were angled back at the front, and would not meet the bow post that I needed to refit (the one I had previously fitted had come off due to ham-fistedness). Off these bulwarks came, and I made another set and fitted these up to the bow post that was now back in place That is better! After I let them set properly for a couple of hours, I hit the drill. I drilled out two 2mm holes athwart(?) where the funnel will be later, although not described on the plan as to what they are, I am going to assume they were coaling scuttles, so the idea will be to slightly recess 2mm rod to represent the scuttles later after I have painted the deck. That will allow a sharp demarcation to the scuttle colour which I will do as a grey. Then I marked and drilled out the portholes (scuttles). I only have the starboard view, so have assumed that they will be symmetrical as the lower deck plan seems to show a similar layout port and starboard as regards accommodation. Next I remembered to drill back up through the deck to allow the masts to fit. It was with some trepidation that I dry fitted the mast and saw how my forward planning had worked this time. I needed to ream the holes to make them a bit larger to start with. The first attempt to fit the mast was 'interesting' I pushed the brass rod in, and do you think it would come back out? No, it would not. Then there was a horrible crack, just before it started to come out. I looked all over the ship to see what broke but could find nothing amiss. After reaming I tried again. Success! I was amazed at just how accurate the rake of the mast was. It was the same on the fore mast too. I have to say I am really pleased with that. This photo seems to show the ship being way too large as compared to the plan, but it is only the perspective that is wrong due to be taken with a wide-angle lens. The ship IS a bit large, about 1/2cm too long in fact which I know is quite a bit in scale terms. Does anyone think that ships from this era would have 'eyebrows' above the scuttles? There is nothing marked on the plans but I would be happy to add them if it was a common fit. Very soon I should be able to get the first real paint on and the Knight Templar can start to come to life. Regards, Ray 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Man, this is looking GOOD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) Hello all! Well, I could not resist getting some paint on the Knight Templar. I have painted her in Revell Tar Black for the main hull, gloss white for the bow bulwarks and Humbrol 70 Brick Red for the underwater area. Brush painted as usual. I do not have any idea how the ship was painted, I cannot find any reference photographs on line, and none of my books (or the internet) tell me what colours the owners, Wm & James Brown of Glasgow used. I will be using ideas from the Steam Coasters book by CV Waine to give 'inspiration'. The blending in of the filler at the aft end is quite visible here, but when it is upright it appears to be quite well hidden. We can keep it secret, can't we my friends? On 4/30/2017 at 1:30 PM, longshanks said: Will be good to see how your plating turns out. Kev And for Kev, here is how the plating effect has appeared: The appearance is quite exaggerated at this magnification, it is much more subtle on the model. honest! I need to do one or two experiments with varnish as the acrylic paints I use seem to be a bit fragile and tend to wear off. I am hoping I can use an enamel varnish to give it a tougher finish. Thanks for looking, Ray Edited May 3, 2017 by Ray S Added extra info! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 The plating effect has turned out very good great job so far Beefy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 That is looking exceeding smart! Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 18 hours ago, Ray S said: here is how the plating effect has appeared Like the effect matey...... Kev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Hello all. I need some nautical advice please! I have a problem with the anchor(s) and their chains for Knight Templar. See the plan: The anchor on the starboard side is shown laid down on the deck, and it appears there are a pair of davits positioned just over the anchor, which I think may be involved in raising or lowering the anchor. Where do you think the chains go? There is a winch there, and a couple of rectangles towards the bow, but rigging seems to go in that area. According to the book, an Armstrong Patent windlass was used to manually raise the anchor. There are no hawse holes shown on deck or in the hull side, so I am stumped! Any help would be really appreciated on this! Kind regards, Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Hi Ray Have you got Vol 2 of British Ocean Tramps? There's a hint at whats going on if you look at Waterloo on the opposite page to Knight Templar in Vol 1. Both ships are very similar, sailing ships with steam engines (as opposed to later steam ships with auxilliary sail) and built using sailing ship practices and layouts, sail was a practical means of propulsion for these ships and no doubt would have been used in favourable winds. Anchor stowage and handling would have been akin to the larger sailing ships they were based on, the anchors stowed on deck and handled with a pair of davits each side, and raised and lowered with a manual winch as you say. The drawings don't show all details in all views (part of your problem), in the plan view immediately aft of the winch is a large H like object, the outer arms of the H are I believe upright spoked wheels with a cross axle between them that drives the winch when turned by hand, these aren't shown in the side profile (maybe removable?). You refer to anchor chain, but it may not have been chain, or may only have been partly chain. It may have been anchor cable (heavy "rope") or a short length of chain between the anchor and cable. If cable was used, it would most likely be disconnected from the anchor or anchor chain and all stowed below deck when on passage. The drawings of Waterloo show anchor davits on the focsle deck, and an anchor windlass on the well deck below the focsle deck. The side view shows no sign of hawse pipes, however, if you have vol 2 there is a colour waterline side view of Waterloo which shows the anchor stowed on deck as per the drawing of Knight Templar, with a chain running to a hawse pipe immediately behind the stem and below the well deck. The plan drawing of Waterloo's well deck area below the focsle shows the tops of two hawse pipes with what I interpret as cable stoppers on the outboard sides. There's no sign of spurling pipes or chain lockers, so if cable was used for the rest of the anchor "line" then it could be coiled and stowed on the well deck behind the windlass (or there is a cable locker and it just isn't shown) If we now look back at Knight Templar, she has two very similar items to Waterloo's hawse pipe/cable stoppers, one each side of the companionway house down into the focsle accommodation. In the lamp locker and Firemen's cabin each side of the companionway below these, is a small square hatch (or shaft). I'd interpret these as spurling pipes with cable stoppers on top leading to cable lockers below the focsle accommodation. The cable would have then come forward to the windlass and then forward from the windlass. The two rectangles with ovals in the middle I'd interpret as hawse pipes, with the cable leading down these and out of the ship before being lead back up and secured to the anchor stock. There's a pair of bollards on the centreline between the hawse pipes and windlass, and a line from the bollards to the fairleads in the bulwark at the stem passes over or immediately adjacent to the hawse pipes, so I can't see these being anything other than hawse pipes. They're not shown in the focsle accommodation drawing, but I'd put them angling forward and outboard by 30-45 degrees and down by 45-60 degrees, this would have them run forward of the forward 2 double bunks in the focsle locker, and exit the ships side just above or below the focsle accommodation deck level. That's my interpretation, I'm open to reasoned alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 5, 2017 Author Share Posted May 5, 2017 Dave, thank you so much for that! It looks like you have hit the nail on the head for me. I do have the Vol 2 book so I see what you mean. I think I will open up a pair of hawse holes in roughly the same place and see how I get on. I will give it a day or so first to make sure I put them in a sensible place. Thanks for taking the time to explain, it is very appreciated. Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Ray S said: Thanks for taking the time to explain You're welcome Ray. The model is coming on great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Hello all. Well, thanks to Dave Swindell I now have a bit of an idea for the anchors and cabling. I measured out where the hawse holes would be in the deck, then had a good old rummage in my etch box for something suitable to use. Last time I used thin plastic card for the raised section, but it did not really work, so I thought about brass this time. I found that 1/700 RN Hatches were just the right size, so I tried drilling a hole in one, but it buckled. I used a smaller drill on the next, and it was fine, so I did another then fitted them over a pair of holes I had drilled into the deck. I initially fitted them onto a couple of fine dabs of PVA, then ran CA around the edges to fully secure them. Then after a few minutes, I was able to ream open the hole a bit more with the larger drill bit. I may well go down the route where the cables and chain have been stowed for passage. Then my thoughts turned to the deck structures. First, the cargo hatches. I used some plastic strip for the uprights, and ensured they were square by using a set square. Then I traced out the hatch, and cut that from 20 thou card. Next, I scribed in the planking for the wooden battens with a scalpel, then ran a sharp needle down the lines. Two presses of the knife, three of the needle on each line and hopefully the hatches looks similar. I sanded over the scribing then used a stiff brush to remove the rest of the swarf. This is easier than scribing aircraft! I will not have then covered by tarpaulins. Three twists of the needle produced the indents on each side of the hatch. I have made three of the cargo hatches and marked them to make sure I do not put them in the wrong place (famous last words!). Then it was the most complex of the superstructure, the main deckhouse. I used 20 thou card again for the sides, traced out the shape and then marked up where there look to be windows on the plan by the charthouse. I chain-drilled four holes into the window area, then used a scalpel to open them up. I have tried to ensure that they are all equal sized. I cut out a number of bulkheads and front and aft walls, then from 10 thou card a pair of doors, which were added forward. According to the plan, it looks like there are skylights on the main roof forward of the charthouse but aft of the funnel, so I will make that from clear plastic and use tape masks to create the openings, but that is for another day. Just one question now, Knight Templar had two ships wheels. On the plan, it does not look like there is enough space for the helmsman to stand behind the wheels either midships or aft, so where would they stand? The binnacles are well in front of the wheels, so would they stand to one side of the wheel? Ok, make it two questions - do you think I could get away with a 1/350 set of figures to crew this ship? As she will eventually be on a sea base, she needs someone at the highly visible wheel (at least). Thanks for looking, and for keeping me on the right track! Ray Edited May 7, 2017 by Ray S Tidy up the post 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Looking good Ray have you tried Glue and Glaze for the windows I used it on my Fishing trawler and Tugboat builds dry's clear and it is easy to use. Beefy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Interesting update, the start on the superstructure loos most promising! Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Martian Hale said: Interesting update, the start on the superstructure loos most promising! Martian Knowing Ray, this model will indeed feature finely detailed loos. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 OK finger trouble there, post duly edited! Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, Martian Hale said: OK finger trouble there, post duly edited! Martian Spoilsport. The original was more fun - and the idea of Ray including the toilets was not too far-fetched. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Seahawk said: Spoilsport. The original was more fun - and the idea of Ray including the toilets was not too far-fetched. Fair enough, I've just changed it back to loos for you! Martian Aiming to Please 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 7 hours ago, Seahawk said: Spoilsport. The original was more fun - and the idea of Ray including the toilets was not too far-fetched. I did with my Short Singapore vacform I built! Seahawk may well have seen it when I took it to model club. Thankyou Martian for suggesting it, when the lid (roof!) is on, you will never know whether I did or not! Thanks for giving me a laugh! Ray 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 22 hours ago, beefy66 said: Looking good Ray have you tried Glue and Glaze for the windows I used it on my Fishing trawler and Tugboat builds dry's clear and it is easy to use. Beefy Yep, my favourite glazing material - it is also good for securing small photoetch and the like too. Cheers, Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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