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Knight Templar 1872 Iron screw steamer


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Hello all! 

 

I have decided to have a bash at another scratch build, this time of an early steamship which was also fully rigged as a topsail schooner (it says so in the book!). I have to admit that I am not sure of the scale. She was 241.3ft in length and 30.7ft in breadth, with a depth of 25.6ft. The plans do not give a scale, but she is 9 7/8th inches long on the plan from bow to stern, and 9 9/16th inches long from bow to rudder post, and finally 1 1/16th inch from the top of the gunwhale to the bottom of the keel.

 

The Knight Templar was built  by JG Lawrie, Glasgow for Baird and Brown, Glasgow. Launched on the 6th September 1872, she had a very short service life, as she was lost on a voyage to India on the 3rd February 1873. The Knight Templar had a relatively long, slim hull and low skylights and boiler casing on deck. This combination caused problems with early steamships in bad weather.

 

The plan has come from 'British Ocean Tramps Vol1 - Builders and Cargoes' by PN Thomas along with the potted history mentioned above. She also has a page on the Clydeships website, but sadly no photographs. On a previous build I had access to a brilliant website www.photoship.co.uk but that seems to have gone now, and I have been unable to locate any images at all. This will mean some artistic licence as regards fittings and colours, but I will do my best to make it as close to reality as I can.

 

At the moment I have not cut any plastic, but have it all in stock. I will show a 'parts list' soon, but meanwhile, here is the plan:

 

33686297181_7bc2d47bc1_z.jpg

 

I want to try some new techniques on this model, and will attempt at least a hint of planning the sequence to the build. The main thing I want to learn  though is soldering for the masts as I had an awkward time on my previous scratchbuild when it came to fitting booms to masts, and this one has booms and yardarms. Oh yes, and how to make the sails too!

 

Despite having dropped in terms like 'booms', 'yardarms', 'keel' and 'bow' I am a bit of a landlubber and have been known to make the odd boo-boo when it comes to ships, so please, if you see me doing anything like that as this progresses, let me know! Hopefully I have remembered some of the guidance I was given previously.

 

I will add more soon!

 

All the best,  

 

Ray

Edited by Ray S
to correct an inability to spell!
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1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

That's what I get as well.

Waterline of full hull Ray?

 

Hi Dave, I am thinking waterline and trying a different way to do 'water'.

 

But then again, I was thinking of adding a wood (rather than plastic) keel on the basis that it would be easier to carve/sand to shape.

 

Choices choices!

 

Cheers, Ray.

 

WATERLINE! Under full canvas too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all! After a prolonged episode of life getting in the way of our real purpose of being (i.e. building models), I have finally gotten a start on this, and also solved a problem.

 

First up, the problem. I found the scale on the plans! This of course does not bode well for my reading/interpreting of said plans...

 

33261964953_9429cf1e88_z.jpg

 

The pencil is pointing to the scale;- the scale mark is 2cm long and represents 6 meters, so I am working at 1/300 scale, so Kev was pretty much spot on when he said 1/293. I suspect my measuring contributed to the difference!

 

I drew out the bulkheads on tracing paper, then realised I had forgotten to take into account the waterline. That was another good start, wasn't it! So I marked on the plan a line 2.5mm below the waterline, which hopefully will allow a bit of leeway when I fit the ship to the base, then redrew the bulkheads along a datum line.

 

33261953783_2f2224d11d_z.jpg

 

I then transferred these to a sheet of 30 thou card by retracing the one half, turning over the paper then doing the same from the other side of the paper, ideally making the part symmetrical. Again I did this all along a datum line I had drawn on the plastic sheet. I cut the parts out with a pair of Fiskars haberdasher scissors which did a great job, and left only minimal sanding to final shape.

 

34033351956_67ca8528e1_z.jpg

 

I then cut out a slightly oversized (!) base plate, then taped it to the plan as accurately as possible to be parallel to the bulkhead guide and marked on the bulkhead lines and numbers onto the baseplate (which again was 30 thou card).

 

33917069572_97b37b530f_z.jpg

 

Then it was time for some gluing! I started fitting some of the bulkheads at the front end, attaching them with Tamiya Extra Thin Cement. I have only just started using this product, and I was amazed at how quickly it set and produced a good solid bond. I then cut some more card and started to build up a lattice-work do add some extra solidity to the hull. I have marked on the baseplate where the masts will need to go, as I intend to put some tube in place to accept the brass masts later in the build, and I also want to fit some nuts in so I can bolt this one to a wooden base later.

 

33261968823_eb5588b159_z.jpg

 

33689170130_a36e7dcbe5_z.jpg

 

The lattice work looks a bit ragged at the moment, but it will be tidied up later when it is all finished and good and solid.

 

It is not much of an update, but at least I have now started and hopefully will have plenty of time over the next few weeks to get really stuck in!

 

All advice will be greatly appreciated, so thanks for looking,

 

Ray

 

 

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Good start there Ray. Strange they went for the offbeat 1:300 scale rather than the much more popular 1:293rd ;-) I think i'd have checked the frame widths on their stations on the baseplate, then marked and  cut the waterline before attaching the frames, purely for ease of cutting, but it shouldn't make much difference. Don't forget mast rake, the foot of the mast on the waterline will be slightly further forward than on the main deck, but you knew that anyway, didn't you?

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1 minute ago, Dave Swindell said:

Good start there Ray. Strange they went for the offbeat 1:300 scale rather than the much more popular 1:293rd ;-) I think i'd have checked the frame widths on their stations on the baseplate, then marked and  cut the waterline before attaching the frames, purely for ease of cutting, but it shouldn't make much difference. Don't forget mast rake, the foot of the mast on the waterline will be slightly further forward than on the main deck, but you knew that anyway, didn't you?

 

Cheers Dave, I did actually remember about the rake - probably a first! - I will need to trim the centre of two of the bulkheads as they are in the way but will do that later when it is set solid.

 

When I did my last scratchbuild I did the baseplate to the correct size, but somewhere along the line things did not work out quite right and had a few errors, so by making this oversize I will trim it down and hopefully not have the same issues.

 

Yes, I too thought the scale was odd, 1/293 would have been so much better considering Revell and their scaling history (other brands also contributed). 1/300 is so...? neat, predictable?

 

11 minutes ago, longshanks said:

Good start Ray

Looking forward to seeing this one come together .....

 

Kev

 

Thanks Kev!

 

Cheers, Ray

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Hello all!

 

Today has been a good day. Went to B&Q and managed to get some bolts, nuts and washers which fit inside the bulkheads, and that will allow me to fix this solidly to the base a bit later on.

 

I have managed to get all the bulkheads fitted bar one (the rearmost and it does not touch the waterline so will fit under the deck later). This is an area which really shows my hamfistedness/inability to measure correctly (delete as required). The bulkheads are slightly out at various points along the length of the hull.

 

34103238156_9331c52f92_z.jpg

 

I had been thinking about skinning the hull. On two previous ships I have done, the skinning left pronounced (to me) ridges in the hull where they were not equal and where the curve of the lines took place. So, how to solve this? My first thought was to pack out the sections between the fore/aft strengthening strips I has added and where the skinning would go, so I practiced with my Polyfiller at the fore cavity, rear area and in the middle box sections to see how it would work and sand:

 

34013441131_afbef64e9d_z.jpg

 

I did not like this idea after a while, so I had idea number 2 - use card to create the lines instead. A lot of this was quite straightforward, as the strip was quite flat, but at the bow I needed to bend in some curves with a probe handle and thumb. I used the Extra Thin Cement again and it works a treat.

 

34013446341_8e2b7d5277_z.jpg

 

34013448991_36f17c1750_z.jpg

 

33759036320_b4ae987144_z.jpg

 

As you can see, this is still very rough, but it is all stuck in quite well, and will get sanded over the next few days. This does not need to be too neat, just enough to allow me to skin with 10 thou card later on, so that will hopefully prevent the ribbing effect. 

 

Another thing you can see is the bowing that is already occurring on the hull form, it is now looking like a banana, hence the need to bolt this to the baseplate! Thankfully I can get one of the bolts very close to the bow, and use two part epoxy as a backup.

 

I think the Pollyfiller will be able to be got out from the stern, and I think I will try to carve the aft section from wood or use Miliput like I did with Ophir.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Ray

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11 hours ago, Ray S said:

The bulkheads are slightly out at various points along the length of the hull.

 

 

I have built hulls 20/36" long using photocopied lines and found them to be out.......

So don't beat your self up.

 

Love how you're going about this. Scratch building at its best, muddling along until you find what works for you.

 

Watching and learning

 

Kev

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On 4/20/2017 at 7:14 AM, longshanks said:

 

muddling along until you find what works for you.

 

Watching and learning

 

Kev

 

Hi Kev, I could not describe my methods any better than that! 

 

More muddling done, but I am gradually learning too. I skinned the hull sides with 10 thou card, and fixed it with Humbrol Liquid Poly. I cut the card over-sized on purpose, with the idea of cutting it down later.

 

34200611456_edd960c36e_z.jpg

 

I did not cut enough to curve around the transom as I have decided to fill that area with Milliput later on. This skinning was quite thin, and I found that the plastic marked very easily - it was affected both by a pair of tweezers and my fingers when I tried to get the skinning to adhere to the underlying plastic, and it also partially melted with the glue I had used. I did not think that using filler to smooth over the imperfections would be any good, so I re-skinned with 20 thou on top of the 10, so the breadth of the ship may now be over scale! Probably the least of the issues concerning accuracy on this one!

 

34200615676_60a63572f7_z.jpg

 

This second layer really does give a better finish, so for future use, I will remember to use 20 thou for skinning straight off. I have only done one side so far and am letting it dry properly before the second side.

 

In the meantime, I prepared the deck. This appears to be one long piece, so I cut out a spare copy of the deck plan and stuck it to some 20 thou card with a Pritt Stick, then gradually trimmed the deck out continually checking with the hull to ensure it fitted reasonably well. Having done that, the plan just peeled off in one piece - learning lesson for this is if you want to remove a paper plan for your plastic use a Pritt Stick! It was well stuck when I was doing all the work on the deck but came off easily. I have now put a second layer on the deck plate, 20 thou .75mm V-Groove to represent the deck planking. This needs a few final adjustments before fitting to the hull.

 

33399852064_2731cc8a9a_z.jpg

 

34110692111_146c29a671_z.jpg

 

I have also fitted some plastic tubing into the hull and braced it with more plastic and plenty of glue to accept the masts later, having checked the rake and all angles to ensure they will be in the correct orientation. I drilled down through the tube to create holes in the bottom of the hull, so when I attach the deck I can re-drill up the tubes to get through the deck in the right places!

 

34200995436_6d8b08b1f3_z.jpg

 

That is it for now, thanks for looking and the comments,

 

Ray

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This is coming along nicely.

 

I know you are past the point in the build now to rectify the curvature in the hull but my experience with scratch building waterline models is to brace the model down the centreline of the base first and fit the bulkheads either side. That said the curvature of your hull is barely noticeable and will be easily hidden when the model is mounted on its seascape. Some of my early attempts at scratch building look more like your deck template after it has been removed so I think you have nothing to worry about.

 

The issue with the skinning I also recognise and I like your solution.

 

Keep up the good work, I am looking forward to watch where this is going.

Paul. :thumbsup:

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Hi there, great work on the Knight Templar!

On the subject of filler,I am on My latest project using Isopon P38,with good results.  Sets fast and sands easily too,and scribes without crumbling. Not noticed any adverse effect on styrene.

Keep Sticking!      Cheers Pete

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5 hours ago, Ray S said:

I drilled down through the tube to create holes in the bottom of the hull, so when I attach the deck I can re-drill up the tubes to get through the deck in the right places!

 

34200995436_6d8b08b1f3_z.jpg

 

 

 

Aaaah... Very good idea!

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On 4/24/2017 at 5:03 PM, Paul E said:

This is coming along nicely.

 

I know you are past the point in the build now to rectify the curvature in the hull but my experience with scratch building waterline models is to brace the model down the centreline of the base first and fit the bulkheads either side. That said the curvature of your hull is barely noticeable and will be easily hidden when the model is mounted on its seascape. Some of my early attempts at scratch building look more like your deck template after it has been removed so I think you have nothing to worry about.

 

The issue with the skinning I also recognise and I like your solution.

 

Keep up the good work, I am looking forward to watch where this is going.

Paul. :thumbsup:

 

Hi Paul, I tried the centreline first method with Ophir, but that one bowed too - maybe I am using too thin a base plate. I agree with the bowing being hidden, that will also come about as when I fitted the second skinning, it went below the current level of the bottom of the hull, so disguises it even more. Thanks for the tip though

 

On 4/24/2017 at 7:09 PM, morty_3333 said:

Hi there, great work on the Knight Templar!

On the subject of filler,I am on My latest project using Isopon P38,with good results.  Sets fast and sands easily too,and scribes without crumbling. Not noticed any adverse effect on styrene.

Keep Sticking!      Cheers Pete

 

Hello Morty, thanks for that about Isopon 38, I have had good results with that too in the past (tried once only) but I have run out at the mo, and I am on a bit of a budget.

On 4/24/2017 at 8:23 PM, Murdo said:

 

Aaaah... Very good idea!

 

Murdo, I do get a good idea every now and again! :D However, I also have a tendency to create 'oops' moments too - for example:

 

On 4/3/2017 at 3:58 PM, Ray S said:

 

I want to try some new techniques on this model, and will attempt at least a hint of planning the sequence to the build.

 

Well, my planning idea soon went out of the window!!! I fitted the deck after suitable fettling, and it fitted like a dream, except for the starboard bow area where there was a bit of a gap. Later on, at about 2.30am I was having difficulty sleeping and I almost sat bolt upright with the thought 'I did not fit the bolt nuts into the hull to attach the ship to the baseplate or even drill the holes'! Doh...

 

34126050492_97a77462e1_z.jpg

 

I have trimmed down the surplus plastic from above the deck, but it still needs a bit more to make it really neat, the starboard bow gap has been filled with Perfect Plastic Putty, and a vertical rod of 30 thou square plastic is now attached to the bow, again oversized as it looks like it goes all the way to the top of the bow 'bulwarks'. I have also done the first lot of Milliput to the aft area, this is a bit rough at the moment (I have said that before methinks) but last time I was able to neaten it up with a couple of layers of PPP. I know Kev (Longshanks) suggested once before about using wood for this area, but I am hesitant as I am not sure how to blend it in to the plastic and with what. I will try on another project though.

 

33899256640_a95e82f247_z.jpg

 

I have tested the hull, and she does NOT become a rudder sitter despite the weight of filler. I just have to wait now for it to set, and hope I mixed it properly.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Ray

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Looking good! I think that the hull should glue down with some epoxy so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the missing bolts.

 

Martian

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16 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Looking good! I think that the hull should glue down with some epoxy so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the missing bolts.

 

Martian

 

Hello Martian, I hereby promise I will not lose sleep! I will be going down the epoxy route when the time comes and I will tape the ship down while the stuff sets (if I remember!).

 

Another thing I forgot was something near the rear of the ship - I should have extended the skinning round after all for two reasons:

  1. There was a step where the skinning stopped and the deck, which my filler did not level out
  2. There should have been some depth to the hull under the deck vertically, whereas I had represented it as being sloped

I tidied up the area then fitted some 20 thou plastic strip around the rear of the hull and fitted it with Tamiya Extra Thin cement, and it bonded really well considering it had only a 20 thou deck to stick to. I had already started the tidying up the filler from yesterday, thankfully the Milliput had set okay. I used Perfect Plastic Putty to start smoothing it out, and have also now started to build up the contours properly.

 

34301185315_b003a2de19_z.jpg

 

Now a request for advice if I may:

 

33686297181_7bc2d47bc1_z.jpg

 

The plan shows what appears to be scroll-work on the transom. The detail is rather vague, but does anyone have any ideas on how to try and replicate this sort of thing? I am not too worried about accuracy, but just something close would do. You can also see what I mean about the depth to the hull under the stern decking.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Ray

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4 hours ago, Ray S said:

Now a request for advice if I may:

 

 

At a scale of 1/300 whatever it is going to be fine...

 

How about taking some fine wire out of stripped down flex. (approx.  0.2mm) and then plaiting three wires. Planting the result around the stern.

 

Kev

 

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9 minutes ago, longshanks said:

 

At a scale of 1/300 whatever it is going to be fine...

 

How about taking some fine wire out of stripped down flex. (approx.  0.2mm) and then plaiting three wires. Planting the result around the stern.

 

Kev

 

 

Hello Kev, that sounds a good idea, I will give it a go. It will be some twhile before I need to attach it so will have plenty of time to practice. I think I may be able to get some very thin gold wire from Hobbycraft, I will check it out Saturday.

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Ray

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