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I agree with Dave, the binnacle ( a compass with dial ) should generally be in front of the wheel. It would at least need to be in a position where the compass dial and heading could be clearly seen by the helmsman.

 

By the way, that "steam powered gramophone" in the photos looks like a scary piece of kit.

Edited by Murdo
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Dear Mr Swindell whilst you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to talk down to me!!

 

 

2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

are you sure you've got the relative positions of the binnacle and wheel correct?

 

An emphatic yes!

 

2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

You've got the wheel hard up against the forward bulkhead and the binnacle directly behind the helmsman, it's neither use nor ornament there if you're trying to steer a compass bearing!

 

You are talking total rubbish as your orientation is wrong.

Aside from anything else I left the Merchant Navy as Chief Officer. I think I might remember which way to use a compass.

 

You and Murdo have based your assumptions on the gearing for the transmission of movement being in front of the wheel. I have pics and plans taken from builders drawings depicting the wheel in front. The helmsman stood to one side. Logical when you stop and think, as right in front of the wheelhouse on the centreline is the smoke stack.

 

I am more than happy to take advise and criticism where it is justified / researched until that time I suggest you refrain from jumping in with both feet

 

One last point

I am building a prototypical puffer for FUN!

 

Kev 

Edited by longshanks
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Umm... My apologies Kev, I really didn't mean to offend you. I wasn't criticising, just trying to help... And quite curious about your subject and build and the intricacies of it.

 

What you mentioned about the smoke stack makes sense. Was the wheel offset from centre (e.g. to port) for the helmsman to see past the funnel? Man, I really have to go and watch Para Handy again, and the "Maggie".

 

I suppose it might make sense for the wheel to be in the middle as the helmsman would meet different situations and berths in each port. I'm still curious as to why the binnacle would be behind the helmsman though? No criticism and not saying it wasn't like that, just saying in a clumsy way that I'm very curious as to why.

 

The puffers seem to have been relatively specialised boats and designed with a particular purpose in mind - getting stuff to people in often remote and difficult to reach areas. This would explain their shape, hull and keel etc. They could even be beached to deliver goods (probably with difficulty but it could be done) without needing a quay / harbour.

 

Please continue to enjoy the fun build, as I will and I really hope to learn more from you.

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No matter where it was, binnacle ??  .... sheer luxury! Oh and the funnel was sometimes in front of the wheelhouse! There is nuthin' rougher than a puffer. Thats why they are loved so much in these parts!

VIC32 below - definitely not representative - Oban North Pier, 30th Sep 2011. Heading home from the Caley Canal, to Crinan (Canal Basin) for the Winter lay up

 

VIC_31460fbk.jpg

Edited by clipper
pic addition
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Murdo, no offence taken. It was the manner in which Swindell set out to correct me.

 

Looking again at the pics I posted I can see where some confusion may have arisen. I have put the compass binnacle in the wrong way round. The iron correcting ball should be red to port

 

Pic that hopefully will clear up the confusion, Forward is to the top of the page.

I can't put the bits on top as everything is still on tails for holding/painting etc.

 

P1050135_(Copy).jpg

 

So in answer to your question the compass binnacle was in front of the helmsman.

 

There is nuthin' rougher than a puffer  Love it Clipper

 

and thanks for dropping in the word binnacle I'd been racking my brains for it . Tis an age thing :winkgrin:

 

Kev

Edited by longshanks
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Hello Kev

I'm quite surprised at your reaction to my post last night, and apologise that my wording of what I thought of as a friendly heads up to a potential inaccuracy, at a point where it could (and has been) easily rectified, has been perceived as something else. This was not my intent, and neither is this post.

The first part of the post was a question to alert you to a potential problem and give you the opportunity to educate myself and others as to why this arrangement was chosen if my observations were incorrect.

I based my orientation on the colours of the Kelvin's balls on the binnacle; as you modelled it originally, this put the binnacle at the rear of the wheelhouse, whereas the plans you posted on page 1 show the binnacle at the front of the wheelhouse, as do the  photo's in the link I included of VIC32's wheelhouse interior. As the first photo you posted was of VIC32, I made the assumption that this was at least in part being used as a reference for the model. As you've now rotated the binnacle through 180 degrees, this now gives the correct orientation within the wheelhouse.

The photo's, and the David Hayman program linked to on p1 also show, that on VIC32 at least, the gearing is forward of the wheel and the helmsman has enough room around the wheel to steer from either side, in front of or behind the wheel (and the program shows this being done whilst manoevring and on passage) I'm well aware that there were other arrangements for the layout of Clyde Puffers, and as it's your model, the wheelhouse design is entirely up to you.

I've done my research, and I've done 37 years in the Merchant Navy, for the last 10 years I've been sailing as Chief Engineer. My advice was based on this and was, as far as I can see, factually correct.

You are free to take or disregard my advice, it was offered with the best intent, and I apologise again that this was percieved otherwise.

You're making a lovely little model, I've enjoyed watching it progress, and I wish you every sucsess in completing it.

Best Regards

Dave Swindell

 

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Before you open fire on me Kev :nerd:

I was rather confused about the positioning of the magnetic compass too. I spent 4 months on a very old harbor tug before "promoting" to the big, modern, b****y strong anchor handling tugs that had a bollard pull of 120 tons,and the bridge arrangement was rather unusual to say the least. Your explanation does however remove any doubts. The build is quite magnificent, lovely little work ship (hate the word "Boat").

Ok, fire at will, I can handle it :wink:

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Man I am learning things everyday, should have paid more attention when I was on boats going around Poole Quay :lol:

 

By the way love the Puffer :like:

 

Regards

Richard

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Life has been interfering with the model world recently...

but we have a small update

 

Wheelhouse fitted out including chart table

 

P1050147_(Copy).jpg

 

P1050149_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

Then it was the turn of the portholes, using a variation of a technique used before

 

First rough cut to length holding in a pin vice

 

P1050141_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

For sizing depth wise. I drilled a hole of suitable depth in a maple block. I've found with this sort of work hardwood is better. If you don't have any use the knot in softwood.

 

P1050143_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

Sanded down

P1050144_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

 

Finished product, to give a sense of size the tube is 1.5mm diameter

 

P1050145_(Copy).jpg

 

Using a piece of 0.1mm card to set depth

 

P1050146_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

The finished product including handle and hinges on the door

 

P1050150_(Copy).jpg

 

Thanks for stopping by

 

Kev

Edited by longshanks
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Nice detailing Kev, you even added the old grey scale type British Admiralty chart instead of the modern dull yellow and blue (modern about 40 years old if I remember correctly :D)

Like it a lot :penguin::penguin::penguin:

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Hi Kev, what a neat idea for the portholes! The cabin is looking good too, in fact the whole thing...

 

I am probably going to use your 'bread and butter' technique on my next project.

 

All the best,

 

Ray

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Thanks for the comments guys

 

Stepping out today

 

P1050152_(Copy).jpg

 

P1050153_(Copy).jpg

 

P1050154_(Copy).jpg

 

Soldered up the mast & boom

 

P1050138_(Copy).jpg

 

 

P1050139_(Copy).jpg

 

 

Mast located in tabernacle to allow the mast to be lowered for passing under a bridge

 

P1050155_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

Goose neck

 

P1050156_(Copy).jpg

 

General view

 

P1050159_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

Thanks for looking in

 

Kev

Edited by longshanks
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On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 06:19, Gremlin56 said:

Nice detailing Kev, you even added the old grey scale type British Admiralty chart instead of the modern dull yellow and blue (modern about 40 years old if I remember correctly :D)

Like it a lot :penguin::penguin::penguin:

 

Charts?? Think you guys are being a bit optimistic .... maybe a company or personal notebook (I'm sure I seen one illustrated on the internet somewhere) about harbours and anchorages, approaches, etc but relied far more on local knowledge and experience

Edited by clipper
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Probably be right .................

Us Big Ship men don't go anywhere without our charts, we'll call it the wrapping paper from his fish & chips.

 

Reminds me, many years ago I was working on the lightening ships in Torbay. We were joined with a 300,000 ton Liberian oil tanker.

Her Second Mate ask if he could look at our charts for the Dover Straits as they were off to Rotterdam next.

I pulled out the chart and he pulled out a roll of tracing paper!!! For those unaware the Dover Straits is divided into relatively narrow shipping lanes and the vessel would only have a few feet clearance in some areas.

When questioned about the lack of charts he took from his pocket a map of Africa taken from the National Geographical magazine. On it were plotted their Noon position from the Gulf to Torbay.

 

Does it make it good or bad seamanship that he had got thus far?

 

Kev

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This is building up to a very good little Puffer

 

Did not know how small this actually was until the last photo with the pen unless that is one hell of a big pen mate  :popcorn:

 

Beefy

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On 1-5-2017 at 4:04 PM, longshanks said:

Probably be right .................

Us Big Ship men don't go anywhere without our charts, we'll call it the wrapping paper from his fish & chips.

 

Reminds me, many years ago I was working on the lightening ships in Torbay. We were joined with a 300,000 ton Liberian oil tanker.

Her Second Mate ask if he could look at our charts for the Dover Straits as they were off to Rotterdam next.

I pulled out the chart and he pulled out a roll of tracing paper!!! For those unaware the Dover Straits is divided into relatively narrow shipping lanes and the vessel would only have a few feet clearance in some areas.

When questioned about the lack of charts he took from his pocket a map of Africa taken from the National Geographical magazine. On it were plotted their Noon position from the Gulf to Torbay.

 

Does it make it good or bad seamanship that he had got thus far?

 

Kev

 

It's very familiar Kev, had a Greek mate pop on board on an identical mission. His Captain had sent him to ask for a good course from the

Panama Canal to Lisbon.

Go figure,

Julian

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Been playing about to see what is possible in this scale

 

Plug made from three layers of ply. The advantage of using ply is that it's easy to see if the shape is symmetrical

 

P1050169_(Copy).jpg

 

P1050172_(Copy).jpg

 

 

Plastic card and industrial hair dryer produces...

 

P1050173_(Copy).jpg

 

In the process of fitting out...

 

P1050177_(Copy).jpg

 

P1050179_(Copy).jpg

 

P1050180_(Copy).jpg

 

and here is one I made earlier

 

P1050181_(Copy).jpg

 

 

 

:hmmm: I thought the idea of working at smaller scales was that there was less to do :banghead:

 

Thanks for looking in

Kev

Edited by longshanks
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