Time to ditch the wingy things and armour up! First AFV WIP - Academy M3 Grant 1:35

[Bullbasket]

Clive, if you at interested, I can let you have some copies of colour profiles. I've got a couple of books and a deal sheet that I can photo copy if you want.

Bear in mind not to make it too rusty as there wasn't much moisture around out there. Chips and bare metal is more the order of the day with maybe a bit of rust.

 

John.

[clive_t]

1 minute ago, Bullbasket said:

Clive, if you at interested, I can let you have some copies of colour profiles. I've got a couple of books and a deal sheet that I can photo copy if you want.

Bear in mind not to make it too rusty as there wasn't much moisture around out there. Chips and bare metal is more the order of the day with maybe a bit of rust.

 

John.

That would be very much appreciated John, thanks. Thanks also for the heads-up about the rusting.

[Bullbasket]

OK, give me a while to get some jobs out of the way (which will keep the household authority happy) and I'll drag out what I have.

 

John.

[clive_t]

1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

OK, give me a while to get some jobs out of the way (which will keep the household authority happy) and I'll drag out what I have.

 

John.

Indeed, priorities must be observed at all times 

 

Any assistance gratefully received as ever 

[Bullbasket]

OK, I've sorted out some stuff. There are 9 pages of it, so do you want me to put it onto your thread, PM it to you or email? I know that it would take up some space in your thread, but at least it would be there for anyone else to access if they were doing a similar build.

 

John.

 

[clive_t]

32 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

OK, I've sorted out some stuff. There are 9 pages of it, so do you want me to put it onto your thread, PM it to you or email? I know that it would take up some space in your thread, but at least it would be there for anyone else to access if they were doing a similar build.

 

John.

 

Thanks John, by all means post it on here, not a problem for me 

[Bullbasket]

Clive, before I post these photos, a thought struck me.....Copyright! Not sure if I'm infringing that if I were to post the photos here as they are taken from various books, so I'm going to PM them to you. If anyone knows otherwise, maybe they could say, so they'll be with you in a couple of minutes.

 

John. 

[clive_t]

Thanks to John, @Bullbasket for the supplied paint schemes. I have made my choice, and I am sticking to it!

 

The subject is now masked all round the tracks, and simultaneously stuck onto a small turntable:

 

 

Now, I've seen various opinions on 'pre-shading' - ie good thing, or not, or... some other opinion! I've also seen similar for this 'hair-spray' chipping technique to reveal bare metal and/or rust under the paintwork. Both of these things I have decided to try; however, I had this wild idea whereby I would combine the two, that is to say I would pre-shade with (my interpretation of) a steel colour. How it's going to turn out, I have no idea! But here's how it looks right now:

 

 

 

 

Now did my ears deceive me, or am I hearing collective screams of anguish amongst the serried ranks of the watchers of this thread? Believe me, part of me wants to do the same. I could say, 'trust me I know what I'm doing', but alas mother always said it's not very nice to tell lies on an online internet forum (she was quite forward thinking back in the 60s).

 

Next stage, after I've taken my regulation valium, is to offer it the first coat of Tamiya desert yellow, and let's see where that gets us!

 

Feel free to laugh, pray, or offer some sacrifice of a small animal inside a pentangle, as you see fit!

[Ozzy]

Intresting look, has the air of somthing out of an old science fiction movie. 

[clive_t]

6 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Intresting look, has the air of somthing out of an old science fiction movie. 

Indeed, it's taken on a bit of a 'steam punk' look . Hopefully that will change for the better soon 

[FrancisGL]

It does not seem so bad idea ... watching with interest the result (crossed fingers ...)

Cheers Clive

[clive_t]

5 hours ago, FrancisGL said:

It does not seem so bad idea ... watching with interest the result (crossed fingers ...)

Cheers Clive

Thanks Francis

 

Well, here it is after the first pass with a mix of about 75% Desert Yellow (XF-59) and 25% Deck Tan (XF-55) to tone it down a little:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about the picture quality, the light levels are all over the place here at the moment.

 

I will let that settle for a while before having a tentative go with the water/toothpick. I suspect the PE bits are going to cause me some grief, they don't seem to have taken kindly to being primed with etch primer. Ah well, we shall see!

 

Thanks for watching, as ever comments and general hilarity all welcome!

 

[Ozzy]

Nice overspray Clive.

[Bullbasket]

It looks good Clive. The lighting can alter the look of the colour dramatically. I've taken two photos before now, in exactly the same position, just altered the lighting, and the results were so different. One looked a very dark OD and the other a very yellowy green.

 

John.

[Ade H]

 

On 22/08/2017 at 18:11, clive_t said:

Feel free to laugh, pray, or offer some sacrifice of a small animal inside a pentangle, as you see fit!

I don't know where I'm going to find a pentangle shop open at this time of day.

 

Regarding pre-shading. I pretty much can't do it, but I'm finding it easier and more successful to post-shade with washes or just thinned and altered versions of the base. One advantage is that you can react to how things look more than having to plan it all out in your mind's eye. Might work for you here.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Ade H

[clive_t]

On 23/08/2017 at 6:27 PM, Ozzy said:

Nice overspray Clive.

Cheers Ozzy, I am quite pleased with how it went - given my relative inexperience in these techniques

Thanks John

16 hours ago, Ade H said:

 

I don't know where I'm going to find a pentangle shop open at this time of day.

 

Regarding pre-shading. I pretty much can't do it, but I'm finding it easier and more successful to post-shade with washes or just thinned and altered versions of the base. One advantage is that you can react to how things look more than having to plan it all out in your mind's eye. Might work for you here.

Thanks Ade, I think our local Pagans R Us is half-day closing on Wednesdays.

 

Joking aside, you make a valid point about post-shading. I will certainly bear that in mind for up-coming activities.

19 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

It looks good Clive. The lighting can alter the look of the colour dramatically. I've taken two photos before now, in exactly the same position, just altered the lighting, and the results were so different. One looked a very dark OD and the other a very yellowy green.

 

John.

 

Thanks John. You may recognise - despite my hamfisted attempts - the scheme I have now reproduced below, based on the images you very kindly provided.

 

Warning: Yet another pic-fest follows!

 

First, some Tamiya Khaki (XF-49), to the upper surfaces. Freehand with a gravity-type air-brush:

 

 

 

 

Then some earthy-coloured blotches courtesy of a quick go (again, freehand) with the same air-brush and some Tamiya Red Earth (XF-64):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[clive_t]

Now at this point, I should be reasonably pleased with myself - however, an oversight on my part has got me more than a little concerned regarding 'chipping'. It has occurred to me that I missed a small but potentially crucial step: I omitted to seal the metallic pre-shade coat. There is a danger, I am guessing, that attempting to scrape away the top layer is equally likely to remove the metallic layer also. I may therefore have to re-think how I apply that 'chipped paint' look...  

[Ade H]

I'm not sure that you need to worry, Clive. I'm not aware of any need to clear coat before a chipping medium / hairspray, though no doubt some people do. I tested hairspray yesterday, and it was fine. That was directly on Metal Color: I can't recall now what metallic you used. Try a discrete spot first!

[Bullbasket]

Glad to see that you found a 3RTR scheme that appealed to you. It's coming along fine.

 

John.

[BlackMax12]

Clive

 

When I white washed that Stug III and the Panther G recently I gave them a generous coat of Dullcoat before applying the hairspray.  When I did the Jagdpanther later I forgot

the dullcoat before the hairspray and it didn't seem to matter.  Of course the Tamiya paint on the Jagdpanther had cured for over a year so it was pretty tough.

 

One thing I did discover is if you let the Tamiya overcoat, white in my case, dry too long you have a bugger of a time getting it off with a toothbrush.  If I ever do another hairspray/toothbrush

project I think I'll let it dry for 10-15 minutes and then see how the water works.  I was tempted to try some Windex but eventually with a lot of tooth brushing the paint finally started to move

but then I discovered I had generously removed too much in places.  Your idea of the tooth pick and discrete chipping might be a better approach.

 

Your Grant looks great and that paint scheme sort of looks like the German 3 colour camo.  Did they really paint the 1:1 model that scheme?

 

Lloyd

[clive_t]

8 hours ago, Ade H said:

I'm not sure that you need to worry, Clive. I'm not aware of any need to clear coat before a chipping medium / hairspray, though no doubt some people do. I tested hairspray yesterday, and it was fine. That was directly on Metal Color: I can't recall now what metallic you used. Try a discrete spot first!

I used a simple mixture of Games Workshop's 'Boltgun metal' and 'tin bitz' (I know...) to represent steel. I've used them elsewhere on this project and they've not looked too bad.

5 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Glad to see that you found a 3RTR scheme that appealed to you. It's coming along fine.

 

John.

Thanks John. yes I was quite pleased to have represented it fairly well

57 minutes ago, BlackMax12 said:

Clive

 

When I white washed that Stug III and the Panther G recently I gave them a generous coat of Dullcoat before applying the hairspray.  When I did the Jagdpanther later I forgot

the dullcoat before the hairspray and it didn't seem to matter.  Of course the Tamiya paint on the Jagdpanther had cured for over a year so it was pretty tough.

 

One thing I did discover is if you let the Tamiya overcoat, white in my case, dry too long you have a bugger of a time getting it off with a toothbrush.  If I ever do another hairspray/toothbrush

project I think I'll let it dry for 10-15 minutes and then see how the water works.  I was tempted to try some Windex but eventually with a lot of tooth brushing the paint finally started to move

but then I discovered I had generously removed too much in places.  Your idea of the tooth pick and discrete chipping might be a better approach.

 

Your Grant looks great and that paint scheme sort of looks like the German 3 colour camo.  Did they really paint the 1:1 model that scheme?

 

Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd, yes I am finding that same issue myself with the top coat becoming very tough to break through even after being left for a mere 36 hours. So much so, that I abandoned the idea for a while and got on with other things.

 

The scheme is an unusual one, which appeared in some page scans sent to me by John, aka @Bullbasket By a twist of fate I managed to uncover a post on another online forum wherein the poster describes the nature of how paint schemes changed for British Armour in that region. It transpires the the scheme was indeed in use by 3RTR, but only until June 1942! Fate can be so cruel sometimes! No matter, I am continuing with the scheme as it looks pretty good.

[BlackMax12]

Regardless of the time frame the scheme does look good, even on an Allied vehicle.  Maybe the Germans were on to something, didn't do them much good in the end though.  Good

looking tanks and all just not nearly enough of them.

 

On a different note, the 1945 T-34 in Berlin I'm modelling is only one colour, cruddy green isn't it?  Wish there was some variation but now that I've undercoated it in black I'll let the black show through the

thin coat of green in places, chip the heck out of it and add some dirt then call it a day.  I might try chipping with red primer this time as I understand the undercoat was red primer, not black, oh well.

 

That AFV Club T-34 is a nice model but the clear turret and hull threw me and it's disappointing that the detailed interior is out of sight.  Same as my Meng MK V Heavy Tank, the interior is complete and it's there,

but it can't be seen.

 

Note to self, don't buy models with interiors, but that's all that's available on a subject sometimes.

 

Lloyd

[Ozzy]

Nice camouflage scheme Clive, in regards to the exposure of bare metal have you thought about a HB pencil? I've used it on a T-34 I built a while back, it looks pretty effective around hatches an alike.

[clive_t]

13 hours ago, BlackMax12 said:

Regardless of the time frame the scheme does look good, even on an Allied vehicle.  Maybe the Germans were on to something, didn't do them much good in the end though.  Good

looking tanks and all just not nearly enough of them.

 

On a different note, the 1945 T-34 in Berlin I'm modelling is only one colour, cruddy green isn't it?  Wish there was some variation but now that I've undercoated it in black I'll let the black show through the

thin coat of green in places, chip the heck out of it and add some dirt then call it a day.  I might try chipping with red primer this time as I understand the undercoat was red primer, not black, oh well.

 

That AFV Club T-34 is a nice model but the clear turret and hull threw me and it's disappointing that the detailed interior is out of sight.  Same as my Meng MK V Heavy Tank, the interior is complete and it's there,

but it can't be seen.

 

Note to self, don't buy models with interiors, but that's all that's available on a subject sometimes.

 

Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd. I get what you mean with hidden details. There's quite a bit I could have left out of this model even allowing for the fact that I'd be modelling it at leaguer, with most of the doors and hatches open in a vain attempt to cool the interior. The beneficial by-product of that is that at least some of the interior detail will be visible - if you angle your head, close one eye, get down on one knee etc. That's the theory, anyway

[clive_t]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Nice camouflage scheme Clive, in regards to the exposure of bare metal have you thought about a HB pencil? I've used it on a T-34 I built a while back, it looks pretty effective around hatches an alike.

Thanks Ozzy, that's an idea, I might try that...