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'Milk and Mud', PBY5 Catalinas for Dutch Navy in color 1941, and one in TSS ...


occa

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The title is the description of the colors for Dutch flying boats, milk (white) and mud

 

In september 1941, a Dutch delegation took the first Consolidated PBY Catalina in San Diego (USA) and flew it to Naval airbase Morokrembangan on Java in the Dutch East Indies

 

Edit:

And like Nick pointed out there is one in British TSS in the background from 3:45 on ...

 

 

 

 

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Very nice bit of film Occa.

 

Built the Catalina 1/48 scale. Great build. Looks the part on the shelf or suspended above the shelf actually. Strange aircraft. Study each

element and you would say it looks ugly. Put all the bits together and it is a very lovely aircraft.

 

I live in Jersey (Original UK) and about 10 years ago at the Battle of Britain air show here the Catalina cam over two years in a row. She

looked magnificent coming over the bay. She was all white. They were giving short rides around the Island but missed out for totally

unacceptable reasons.

 

Laurie

 

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Absolutely stunning material! Saving this one to disk :)
My great-uncle flew one of these (it may have been this one, she doesn't carry her registration code yet) and was shot down in it. I built his plane a few years back:

 

 

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17 minutes ago, sroubos said:

Absolutely stunning material! Saving this one to disk :)
My great-uncle flew one of these (it may have been this one, she doesn't carry her registration code yet) and was shot down in it. I built his plane a few years back:

 

 

 

... And I still love your story behind your build

 

4 minutes ago, Nick Millman said:

Two-tone British Cat in the background from 3:45.

 

Nick

 

Wow yes, I've missed that

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It's sort of amazing to see that this is coming from the Dutch government's archives and is just freely available. How did you discover this stuff? Are they releasing it piecemeal? I'm going to have to spend some time looking for this kind of material myself.

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29 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Interesting views of San Diego harbour, as was.  However, Milk I'll go with, but surely not Mud?  Wasn't that the description given to the olive/greens of the NEI land-based aircraft?

 

Mud is the color of muddy waters close to the banks of river mouths where the AC were supposed to be moored.

Ian K: Baker called it like that if I don't err

 

Edit:

Also mentioned here:

Donkerblauwgrijs was sometimes also referred to as Blauwgrijs (Blue Grey) or mud.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/09/stuff_eng_dutch_af_colours_02.htm

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The combination 'mud and milk' originated in a Dutch Purchasing Commission document re paint finish for the MLD  Catalinas. No relation to the Army ML-KNIL colors of oudblad and jungblad (old amd young leaf). My suspicion is that the intention was for a muddy color to match the river mouths where the Cats would be parked, but before finishing someone convinced the MLD that blue gray would work better.  A Dutch friend insists this color is darker than USN NS Blue-Gray.

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54 minutes ago, sroubos said:

It's sort of amazing to see that this is coming from the Dutch government's archives and is just freely available. How did you discover this stuff? Are they releasing it piecemeal? I'm going to have to spend some time looking for this kind of material myself.

 

Not how it was supposed to be discovered, I was searching for 'Aleutan Catalina' and there was a still and the link to the video.

Actually I was looking for a photo with a Cat in the gradual 5 or 6 tone navy experimental scheme, you never know where it leads you to ...

 

The 'Nederlands Instituut vor Militaire Historie' is hard to search for me too, maybe they have the video on their FB page ...

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22 minutes ago, jimmaas said:

The combination 'mud and milk' originated in a Dutch Purchasing Commission document re paint finish for the MLD  Catalinas. No relation to the Army ML-KNIL colors of oudblad and jungblad (old amd young leaf). My suspicion is that the intention was for a muddy color to match the river mouths where the Cats would be parked, but before finishing someone convinced the MLD that blue gray would work better.  A Dutch friend insists this color is darker than USN NS Blue-Gray.

 

I just said basically the same above, and to me the uppersides in the video looks significantly darker than blue grey too, not the same color IMO ...

Likely it was changed with later deliveries to USN Blue-Gray indeed ...

 

Thanks Jim for the confirmation that milk and mud was an original naming

 

Cheers,

Martin

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Btw here from 21:17 on are a Martin 139WH-3, a Lockheed L-12 and a Curtiss CW-22 in Dutch colors tho unfortunately the quality is not very good:

 

 

 

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Forgot to say. The Catalina famous for two reasons.

 

It found the Bismark after it was lost after sinking the Hood. It was a British Catalina but did have a USA airmen on board giving expret advice.

 

The second it found ----------- here better than I to describe.

It is 0552 hours (5.52 a.m.) on 4 June 1942, and Lieutenant Howard P. Ady, piloting PBY Catalina flying boat Number 4V58 is about to report the sighting that Rear Admiral Frank J. Fletcher is anxiously waiting to hear aboard his flagship USS Yorktown: "Two carriers and main body ships, carriers in front, course 135, speed 35." Admiral Nagumo's powerful carrier force has been discovered as it approaches under cover of darkness to strike America's Midway Atoll.

 

Laurie

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18 hours ago, Pauly Boy said:

 I assume the colour of the PBY is the same for the DO24? Late 41, early 42????

 

  Paul

Depends on where the respective paints came from, but as it resembles the 'Mud' description I would assume very close.

Same goes for the Fokker T-IV and T-IVa ...

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Actually the Do 24K on display in the Soesterberg Museum wears very similar colors.

Obviously they paid attention of what colors were used when they restored it even if it's a Do 24 T-3 not a K ...

 

Dornier-Do-24.jpg?x38726

 

Dornier-Do-24-rescue-hatch-1024x614.jpg?

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  • 2 years later...
On 3/26/2017 at 11:18 PM, occa said:

Btw here from 21:17 on are a Martin 139WH-3, a Lockheed L-12 and a Curtiss CW-22 in Dutch colors tho unfortunately the quality is not very good:

 

Very interesting both films, just small correction - the Lockheed is L 18 Lodestar, not L 12.

Cheers

J-W

 

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