USAF F15's to be retired.....maybe!

[Head in the clouds.]

Yes , you rad it right and I cannot believe it, I know the F22 is the new top dog but they need F15's to keep up numbers with what still is a capable platform, but replacing with F16's....over to you.

Find here ; https://www.airforcetimes.com/articles/are-the-f-15-eagles-days-numbered

[Harley John]

Wonder if we've got any Tonka F3's left we could lease them. Seems a very strange decision given The Donald is promising huge, I mean really huge, increases to the Defence budget, I thought the F16's were all slated for retirement.

[hacker]

l read ( not know how accurate the article was ) said that the last red flag the F-22, F-35 and the F-15 combined in a combat scenario had an impressive 40 to 1 kill ratio ! Modern electronics in the Eagle along with being tied into the raptor and the lightning systems along with the AWACs how could you do any better?

 

 

[Jimbobtheflimbob]

5 hours ago, Harley John said:

Wonder if we've got any Tonka F3's left we could lease them. Seems a very strange decision given The Donald is promising huge, I mean really huge, increases to the Defence budget, I thought the F16's were all slated for retirement.

I think the last F3s went to the fire dump a manston and one is the gate guardian at Leeming, but i dont think there are any left in the RAF.

 

 

[Simon Cornes]

I thought they had just re-sparred a load of Eagles? Doesn't make sense to send them to the boneyard!

[Truro Model Builder]

Money talks.

 

The F-15C/D,which is the subject of this proposal, has the disadvantage of only being useful in the air-to-air environment. It has no air-to-ground capacity at all; some of you may remember the slogan 'not a pound for air-to-ground'. In these days of multi-role or swing role or even omni-role, single mission aircraft have to justify themselves. See the bunfight over the retirement of the A-10 for further details.

 

It is worth bearing in mind that it is F-15C/Ds operating with the Air National Guard that are being discussed, not regular or reserve Air Force, who have already replaced a lot of their F-15Cs with F-16s. USAFE and PACAF have about 120 in service between them and Air Combat Command have, I think about 100.

 

[Toe]

At the end of the day, which is costlier to operate? Easy answer that, trickier question  - is the F-16 better value with the tasks it'll have to do compared to the F-15?

 

Who isn't looking to cut costs nowadays and it's obvious what they want to do....

[hacker]

15 hours ago, hacker said:

l read ( not know how accurate the article was ) said that the last red flag the F-22, F-35 and the F-15 combined in a combat scenario had an impressive 40 to 1 kill ratio ! Modern electronics in the Eagle along with being tied into the raptor and the lightning systems along with the AWACs how could you do any better?

 

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25078/f-35-red-flag-war-games/

 

 

[Gary C]

 

9 hours ago, T7 Models said:

 

It is worth bearing in mind that it is F-15C/Ds operating with the Air National Guard that are being discussed, not regular or reserve Air Force, who have already replaced a lot of their F-15Cs with F-16s. USAFE and PACAF have about 120 in service between them and Air Combat Command have, I think about 100.

 

 

I'm pretty sure no active duty AF unit has ever replaced F-15C's with F-16's. Langley, Eielson, Holloman and Tyndall have all traded in F-15C's but for F-22's not 16's, whilst Eglin got the F-35. 

 

USAFE and PACAF between them have 3 Squadrons of F-15C/D's left, the 493rd, 44th and 67th. At 24 per squadron and a handfull of spares that totals 80 aircraft at the most. 

 

ACC has no front line F-15C/D units now and the 65th AGRS is no more, although I'm sure there must still be some with the test units either at Eglin or Edwards as well as the WPS at Nellis. I'd be surprised if they totalled anywhere near 50 jets though.

 

I would guess the arrival of the F-35 is driving this. The 388th FW is currently swapping it's block 40 F-16's for it with the 34th FS already done. There are a lot of other units that will be doing the same in the the not to distant future which is going to leave a lot of very capable late block F-16's going spare. Some of the current ANG F-15 units such as California, Montana, Florida and Oregon already had the earlier block 25/30 F-16 anyway prior to getting the F-15's that were freed up by the arrival of the F-22, so swapping back should be no problem from a capability point of view. And given the heavy usage ANG Viper units have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years having a few more around would be very welcome. Add in the cost savings from removing a type completely and it does seem like a good idea.

[Slater]

I don't know - what are the odds of the USAF replacing F-15C's with Typhoons?

[wallyinoz]

5 hours ago, Slater said:

I don't know - what are the odds of the USAF replacing F-15C's with Typhoons?

 

 

about the same as peace in the middle east

[bentwaters81tfw]

So why are the remaining F-15Cs getting a new wing with 2 extra stores pylons, and conformal tanks?

[mhaselden]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:27 AM, bentwaters81tfw said:

So why are the remaining F-15Cs getting a new wing with 2 extra stores pylons, and conformal tanks?

 

Maybe because major programmes (and major upgrades to existing platforms) take years, sometimes decades, to complete but funding is done annually...hence there's at least annual risk of change to the strategic direction of equipment procurement. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by mhaselden

[junglierating]

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 2:27 AM, Harley John said:

Wonder if we've got any Tonka F3's left we could lease them. Seems a very strange decision given The Donald is promising huge, I mean really huge, increases to the Defence budget, I thought the F16's were all slated for retirement.

You were joking right? 

[bentwaters81tfw]

All the F Mk3's were RTS to keep the GR4s flyable. Didn't help when SERCO stuffed up the maintenance programme.

[-Neu-]

On March 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Gary C said:

 

 

I would guess the arrival of the F-35 is driving this. The 388th FW is currently swapping it's block 40 F-16's for it with the 34th FS already done. There are a lot of other units that will be doing the same in the the not to distant future which is going to leave a lot of very capable late block F-16's going spare. Some of the current ANG F-15 units such as California, Montana, Florida and Oregon already had the earlier block 25/30 F-16 anyway prior to getting the F-15's that were freed up by the arrival of the F-22, so swapping back should be no problem from a capability point of view. And given the heavy usage ANG Viper units have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years having a few more around would be very welcome. Add in the cost savings from removing a type completely and it does seem like a good idea.

 

 

That's a large part of it. The other side are the operational changes that are going on with the introduction of 5th Gen aircraft. As seen over Syria, F-22s are basically directing the battlespace, almost operating as mini-awacs/jstars: they have superior situational awareness to any other aircraft. Consequently the 4th gen aircraft are becoming less autonamous and more valuable for their ordnance capabilities. As the F-35 comes online it will be increasingly rare that the F-15 will operate alone without one of these assets around, therefore its air to air only ordinance are less valuable. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mhaselden]

Yesterday's reporting in Defense News on this topic:

 

The Air Force general who oversees long-term strategy downplayed the potential retirement of its F-15C/D Eagle fleet — an idea the service is considering but has not yet approved. “We intend to maintain the F-15C fleet through the 2020s,” Lt. Gen. Jerry Harris, deputy chief of staff for strategic plans, programs and requirements, told reporters after a congressional panel. The proposed F-15C/D retirement first became public after Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., asked Lt. Gen. Scott Rice, director of the Air National Guard, about it during a hearing last week. Rice confirmed that the service was indeed considering replacing its F-15Cs and Ds with F-16s, although the Air Force would retain its inventory of F-15E Strike Eagles.

 

If we take Lt Gen Harris strictly at his word then it appears the F-15Cs will be around for at least another decade. But, as noted in my prior post, everything can change as priorities shift...so the retirement date could be brought forward or pushed out (and may well do both...this is, after all, a military procurement question).

Edited March 30, 2017 by mhaselden

[Slater]

This from US DoD contract announcements today. If they're thinking about retiring the F-15's, they're sure spending a lot of money on them:

 

The Boeing Co, St. Louis, Missouri, has been awarded a $168,832,812 modification (P00028) to previously awarded contract FA8634-16-C-2653 for F-15 Combined APG-63 Version 3 Radar Improvement Program and APG-82 Version 1 Radar Modernization Program radar upgrades. Contractor will provide additional quantity of 18 V3 radars and 16 RMP radars, as well as the associated installation, initial spares, support equipment, ICS, tooling, and other required support. Work will be performed at St. Louis, Missouri, and is expected to be complete by Feb. 28, 2022. Fiscal 2015, 2016 and 2017 procurement; and defense working capital funds in the amount of $168,832,812 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity. 
 

[Cookenbacher]

The F-15 is one of my favorite aircraft, so I'm a little biased. However, the majority of Eagles in service are assigned to continental air defense with the ANG. This role was occupied by the F-16A ADF for a decade or so at the end of the Cold War, so it's not much of a stretch to have F-16's assigned to that role again.

 

There are three active duty F-15 squadrons left, as mentioned above, and their role can really only be taken over by F-22's. There are not enough of those to do so.