F-104C Vietnam Interior Colours?

[Crossofiron1971]

Hi everyone,

I am researching an F-104C Vietnam Era,

 

I am looking for colours for the following;

 

• Gun Bay
• Starboard Lower Avionics Bay
• Magazines for the Cannon
• Undercarriage
• Air Brakes

 

Getting conflicting pictures and very few of the C...

 

Many thanks in advance!

Cheers

Steve

[JPuente54]

I can't speak to the gun bay, avionics, magazine, or the air brakes, sorry. However, I can say that the undercarriage, undercarriage bay(s), and the landing gear door(s) interior(s) were in white FS 17875. This was started in the late '50s for all USN/USMC/USAF aircraft to the best of my knowledge; so, that any fluid leaks would be seen. Also, the white color would reflect the most of any light used. If I am wrong about when the practice was started; then, I hope to be corrected.

HTH!

Joe

[Blackfordhibby]

Try this      http://www.i-f-s.nl/udorn-aircraft-part-1/    third picture (Snoopy Sniper) with an open door on the starboard side.

 

Cheers

Peter

[72modeler]

Peter,

 

Awesome link! Loved the SEA Starfighters! Thanks so much for sharing.

Mike

[Crossofiron1971]

Thanks All!

 

It  seems to me though that the main avionics bay and munitions are gre?

I have also seen the aitbrakes in a C in chromate green?

 

 

[Hook]

11 hours ago, JPuente54 said:

If I am wrong about when the practice was started; then, I hope to be corrected.

 

On the F-104, the gear and bays were aluminium. 

 

See:

 

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/f-104a_56-0733/

 

HTH,

 

Andre

[RidgeRunner]

11 hours ago, pmackinnon2004 said:

 

Try this      http://www.i-f-s.nl/udorn-aircraft-part-1/    third picture (Snoopy Sniper) with an open door on the starboard side.

 

 

That's great link, with great images, and embarrassingly as an IFS member I've not seen it before!

 

Martin

[JPuente54]

Okay, I am corrected! Thanks, Andre, I do want to be correct about these things.

[Giorgio N]

As Andrè said, wheel wells were painted aluminum.

Both the right fuselage avionics bay and the gun bay were in white. The picture linked above shows the avionics bay, the one below shows the gun bay

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/Stars/wu896.htm

 

All other internal structures were in zinc chromate, although I've seen airbrakes with a combination of both this and aluminum.

The same colours were also used on the later F-104Gs, guess that Lockheed continued to follow on these the practices introduced on earlier Starfighter variants.

 

Regarding the use of white in the wheel wells of USAF aircrafts, the first type to use this colour was the F-111, previous types used different colours (aluminum or green). Some later saw these areas repainted in white though. The US Navy introduced the practice much earlier

[Navy Bird]

13 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Regarding the use of white in the wheel wells of USAF aircrafts, the first type to use this colour was the F-111, previous types used different colours (aluminum or green). Some later saw these areas repainted in white though. The US Navy introduced the practice much earlier

 

Since the USAF Phantoms were first delivered in USN colours, perhaps the F-4 was the first USAF aircraft with white wells?

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Crossofiron1971]

Thanks everyone!

[Finn]

Here is a pic that shows the area behind the cockpit:

 

 

the ammo bin is at the left, it was aluminum.

 

Jari

[iainpeden]

What struck me about these pictures is the refuelling probe. I have got used to USAF aircraft being set up for the boom method; however these starfighter are obviously probe and drogue equipped . Then I thought about the F-100 -also probe and rogue. Phantom - depends on air arm, Thunderchief - boom. So my questions are "when did the USAF decide on boom only?", "what I'd they use to refuel the Starfighter etc?" and what were the boom equipped kc-97s used for.

[Finn]

The F-105 had both types:

 

 

For tankers a basket was added to the boom as you can see in the pic so any tanker could be so configured. Of course it meant they could only refuel those a/c, like the F-104 or F-100. Now some tankers have the boom as well as pods on the wings with drouges so they can refuel either type of a/c.

 

Jari

[Zippo the Zipdrive]

55 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

...Thunderchief - boom. So my questions are "when did the USAF decide on boom only?", "what I'd they use to refuel the Starfighter etc?" and what were the boom equipped kc-97s used for.

 

 

Finn beat me to it!   I think F-105 was the only aircraft in USAF with both types of refueling receptors.

 

Regarding F-104 Colors. AFAIK all F-104 wheelwells and undercarrige were in aluminum. They just look white in the pictures due to the lighting.

 

I have tried to find a real source regarding airbrake colors but haven't found any other than checking pictures. Aluminum seems dominating, some green and a few even in zinkchromate yellow. Also I couldn't see any pattern as to which are which regarding type/build year/owner/camouflage etc. But generally they are aluminum.

 

\\Dan

[iainpeden]

After 50+ years of enjoying this hobby, one learns something new everyday! Thanks.

[Greenshirt]

USN still uses the hose and drogue (basket) method, USAF is fully using the boom method. In joint ops the USN will take advantage of USAF tankers, who show up in the theatre with SO MUCH fuel that strike packages can get plenty of fuel enroutr to/from the target to ensure they usually have plenty when they get back to the CVN for recovery. Organic (CVN based USN) tankers then provide just enough to ensure safe recoveries. 

 

edit: reason USN still uses basket is space. No room for those booms on the flight deck of a CVN. 

 

The big big advantage to this is that USAF tankers can land with partially full tanks, while the USN tankers have to dump (throw away) excess fuel to get their weight down for landing on the CVN. Saves a huge amount of money for the tax payers. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Greenshirt

[Hook]

41 minutes ago, Greenshirt said:

USAF is fully using the boom method.

 

... except for USAF helicopters like the HH/MH-60.

 

Good luck using a flying boom on those. 

 

HTH,

 

Andre

[Giorgio N]

The F-105 was not the only USAF type to have both types of IFR systems, the F-101 also had both. Now on the B the probe was eliminated at some point and replaced by an IR sensor, leaving the type with the receptacle for the boom only. The RF-101C used both while I don't have clear information regarding the earlier F-101A/C. Cut-out drawings of the era show both but I've not seen any picture of the extendend probe on these variants so it may not have been carried even if the intention was clearly there.

 

Regarding the 104, this type was not initially meant to have IFR capability, guess that the system installed was all that could be added. It should also be said that when the boom system was introduced, this was led mainly the requirements of SAC and the types involved with this command were supposed to use this system. Soon however all USAF types used this.Of course the boom system was introduced because it was much better suited to the needs of the bomber fleet as the superior flow transfer capability made refuelling types like the B-52 much faster. Interestingly in the last few years there's been a lot of research from the same USAF in using the probe & drogue system on fighters as this system allows the refuelling of more than one aircraft at the same type

[Greenshirt]

5 hours ago, Hook said:

 

... except for USAF helicopters like the HH/MH-60.

 

Good luck using a flying boom on those. 

 

HTH,

 

Andre

Well, ok, except for their helos. Thanks for that. 

[Finn]

A F-101A/C , and others getting gas:

 

 

no room on a F-104 to fit this:

 

 

Jari

[Giorgio N]

Great picture Jari, clears my doubts on the presence of the probe on the F-101A/C

Edited March 15, 2017 by Giorgio N

[Don McIntyre]

I think the straight wing F-84s could have both. The boom receptacle was on the left wing root, and IIRC, a probe for hose refuelling could be fitted to the left tip tank.

One thing I find interesting on the photo that Finn posted is that the insides of the doors are different colors. The ammo compartment cover has a white interior and the one on the avionics bay looks to be dark gray.

[Hook]

On 16-3-2017 at 4:46 PM, Don McIntyre said:

The ammo compartment cover has a white interior and the one on the avionics bay looks to be dark gray.

 

The 'computer compartment' and the LRU's contained within are FS36321 FS36231 , like the cockpit just adjacent to it. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

EDIT: typo corrected

Edited March 19, 2017 by Hook

[Crossofiron1971]

6 hours ago, Hook said:

 

The 'computer compartment' and the LRU's contained within are FS36321, like the cockpit just adjacent to it. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

Thanks for this, can you confirm then the ammunition bay area  is aluminium?