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Catching Pictures in the Air


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4 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Got home this evening to find the cats guarding the biscuits from the chickens. Feathers vs. Fur Smackdown!

34244535925_8d6deafb1d_k.jpg

 

 

Why is the Jaws theme music now echoing around my empty noggin....?!

 

That's one of the scariest pics I've seen for a long while, those chickens look mean - glad I'm not a cat...!! 

 

:dinosaur:is asking whether the cats would like reinforcements..?

 

Brilliant stuff, made me actually LOL when I saw it! :D

 

Keith

 

 

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21 hours ago, perdu said:

 

P1120642.jpg

A mate, on occasions comes in to club with a stack of brass tubes which are residual after an industrial process has finished with them and hands them round freely

A handy pal to have! Wracking my brains to try and work out what job your pal does that would have such singular pieces as leftovers: I'm inclined to believe that he builds very small nuclear generators for NASA space probes....

20 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

Why is the Jaws theme music now echoing around my empty noggin....?!

 

That's one of the scariest pics I've seen for a long while, those chickens look mean - glad I'm not a cat...!! 

Paws vs. Claws! :lol:The funny thing is Keith that despite appearances, fowl and feline get on perfectly amicably out in the garden, and wander around in each other's company quite happily from one end of the day to the next. The hens do however possess an alarmingly Jurassic-sounding sqwauk that Little T might feel quite nostalgic about!

 

Solid methodology to update you with this evening, rather than anything glamorous in the way of structural additions. First up a job I'd been tiptoeing around for fear of screwing it up at the last knockings - trimming the brass supports to follow the internal contour of the fuselage; in the final analysis it just needed a bit of forethought before cutting, using a pair of tweezers and some nail scissors, as even small pliers lacked the required delicacy and sharpness for 0.4mm tubing:

34265839435_2f08659998_c.jpg

Such parts can only really be glued to one side of the aircraft before joining the fuselage around it -  the starboard framework you see here can be glued to the walls for added stability before closing up, the trick is to leave the port side just a tiny bit proud so that it will hold itself in place when this side is glued on.

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I'll stick a blob of Gator grip on the ends of those brass tubes where they meet the wall, so that it doesn't go off before I've had the chance to tape the fuselage halves together; you can see here what it will look like eventually in this dry-fit shot:

34265839965_5258228ed2_c.jpg

For the remainder of the session I concentrated on starting to deckout the fuselage interior with the various panels, struts and boxes that freely adorn the walls. Be warned that a number of these structural details differ markedly between C-119 variants (eg. paratainer drops, troop ferrying, medevac and so forth), so of the many photos floating around the web you have to be clear that you're working from the correct variant/mission type. My initial attempt at drilling-out some of the (strengthening?:shrug:) plates that can be seen up on the rear and forward parts of the cargo area were just embarrassingly inept, using an 0.8mm drill bit on lengths of 0.2mm strip:

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A subsequent attempt turned out somewhat better, though I found it problematic how drilling into such small strips has a tendency to deform the initial straightness of the length of plastic strip as you progressively drill along it. Not perfect, but certainly good enough for the limited perspectival viewing angle that these will be seen from in the final display:

34265835995_d5228f1624_c.jpg

Next up were a couple of what look like circuit breaker boxes (none of the drawings in the Aerofax volume have such details shown or described unfortunately so you're stuck with my ill-informed guesswork as to function I'm afraid). These I built out of scrap plastic,and for the surface cabinet-like detailing I used the same process as previously aired on texturing the roof with foil, i.e., using a superimposed sets of foil rubbings from kit details - in this case the gun access panels from a Spitfire:

34225572946_08d38c6bc5_c.jpg

A slight bevel was added to the edges of the boxes with a file as well, as per what can be seen in photos. Once in place they look convincing enough I think:

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That's it for the noo.

 

Out for a lunchtime walk with Mrs. B the sun broke through and turned the foliage a radiant green:

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It made me realize just how hungry I'd become for sunlight, like the trees themselves. I think I'd miss that green on Mars.

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:bye:

Tony

 

 

 

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That is stunning detail Tony - and everything fits!

 

I really like your method of adding surface detail with the foil rubbings. It has the added advantage of being within my skill set to replicate - unlike lathes, soldering etc.

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34244535925_8d6deafb1d_k.jpg

 

It's quite Hitchcockesqe: The Birds with free range eggs!

 

The interiors are looking quite stunning Tony, although one can't help but be reminded of an image of a 1/72 rope factory or wire spinning. Is that it, are you setting up a jig to spin 1/72 scale cables in order to rig future biplanes?

 

15 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Next up were a couple of what look like circuit breaker boxes (none of the drawings in the Aerofax volume have such details shown or described unfortunately so you're stuck with my ill-informed guesswork as to function I'm afraid). These I built out of scrap plastic,and for the surface cabinet-like detailing I used the same process as previously aired on texturing the roof with foil, i.e., using a superimposed sets of foil rubbings from kit details - in this case the gun access panels from a Spitfire:

34225572946_08d38c6bc5_c.jpg

 

Now that is a great tip. Simple, effective and cheap. Still reckon I need all that casting stuff, lathe and Martian's shrinking ray though...

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Thanks for your comments guys; I'll reply to these later when I get home. :thumbsup2:

 

I clearly want to issue a health warning with this of: 'I'm not a C-119 expert but....'

 

Does anyone know if the interior roof of this kit is actually positioned too low inside? I had a quick search on t'interwebs but this didn't seem to flag anything up as a problem - but then no-one seems to have tried to shove as much stuff inside as I'm attempting before.  In re-positioning the (possible!) strengthening plates along the walls to their correct height (I'd had these too low previously) first thing this morning, I did a quick test fit of the roof and something's astray. Checking reference photos seems to indicate that the vertical separation on the kit between the tops of the bulkhead doorways (those leading into the flight deck and loo) and the roof itself is potentially shy in height by a few mm at this scale.

 

I'll post a couple of comparison pics between the kit and actual aircraft later this evening when I get home as it's unfair to ask people to comment without visual evidence to base any discussion on, but if so, this is a bit of snag.

 

Hmm.....

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Looking at the model that roof spar box thingy seems designed for a model, not an aeroplane

 

Go figure

 

But you'd have to have the ceiling inside the fuselage anyway :)

 

As you haven't reached ' go no go' phase of the build maybe cutting the floor of the wing box off to get some height would work, then make a new 'betterer' spar box for inside

 

If its a real problem you can't overcome by the usual modelling trompe d'loeiul methods that has to be a consideration

 

Not sure I'd bother if the framing can be set up without the changes

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Lovely work going on there Tony.

The idea of making your own embossed foil/s is really neat.

And yes the curry was nice, could of been a bit hotter but it was the wife`s limit of heat tolerance.

 

Simon.

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20 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

That is stunning detail Tony - and everything fits!

 

I really like your method of adding surface detail with the foil rubbings. It has the added advantage of being within my skill set to replicate - unlike lathes, soldering etc.

Thanking-you for that Cookie! I'd mutter something about rubbing being a cheap alternative but my 'Fnaaring Ced' emoji still isn't ready for upload yet!

Oops, here he is now...keep shtumm about the emoji scheme Cookie...;)

16 hours ago, CedB said:

Me too - clever foiling and great looking results. Stored for future use!

Ah, err Ced. There you are. <ahem> Nice day what? :whistle:

16 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Yes, foil! I like that, very good. Nice trees too el Baron sir.:heart:

Fabulous what an hour or two of sun will do to the spirits Johnny.

6 hours ago, Gondor44 said:

Have you tried using a hole punch when trying to punch out a string of holes from a thin sheet of plastic card? That would be if you have one of course.

A non-starter for me in this instance Gondor as those holes need to be sub-millimetric and my punch set only goes down to 1mm. Clearly I am under-investing in tools and need to source a <cheap> micro set if i'm going to be doing mnore of this stuff!:D

6 hours ago, Tomoshenko said:

It's quite Hitchcockesqe: The Birds with free range eggs!

 

The interiors are looking quite stunning Tony, although one can't help but be reminded of an image of a 1/72 rope factory or wire spinning. Is that it, are you setting up a jig to spin 1/72 scale cables in order to rig future biplanes?

An aerial rigging vessel? That wonderful idea sounds like it should be in the beautiful Studio Ghibli film Laputa: Castle in the Sky:

 

6 hours ago, Tomoshenko said:

Now that is a great tip. Simple, effective and cheap. Still reckon I need all that casting stuff, lathe and Martian's shrinking ray though...

Watch out for some of those unscrupulous sellers on Ebay selling fake shrinking ray-guns Tomo. They're only a pair of binoculars painted silver that you look through from the wrong end so that things look smaller....

 

4 hours ago, perdu said:

 

Looking at the model that roof spar box thingy seems designed for a model, not an aeroplane

 

Go figure

 

But you'd have to have the ceiling inside the fuselage anyway :)

Have a gander at this Bill. I knocked this together over lunchbreak:

34282501015_b53dcfd565_b.jpg

Even allowing for differences in viewing angle and in focal length of lens used to take the photos, there's a case to be made here that the kit roof is too low. The ratios between kit and reference photo do not match. The kit seems fine up as far as the level of the doorways, but beyond that, it doesn't extend up far enough until meeting the roof. At this stage I'm pretty dammned sure that your:

Quote

Looking at the model that roof spar box thingy seems designed for a model, not an aeroplane

is an accurate summary of the situation.

4 hours ago, perdu said:

As you haven't reached ' go no go' phase of the build maybe cutting the floor of the wing box off to get some height would work, then make a new 'betterer' spar box for inside

That would be my preference also Bill. :nodding: Tbh I don't think I've any choice but to remedy this. If you look at an uncropped version of the left hand shot above:

33438144634_01c3b42907_c.jpg

...you can see the roof comes down too low both in relation to the wall details, but also crucially the support frames for the retrieval pole. Having spent so long ensuring that the heights and angles of all those brass frames were as accurate as can be achieved from available references, I'm loath to compromise them by failing to sort the height issue here. To be frank I rather relish taking the saw to the spar box - I don't really consider I've been trying on a build until there's been a major amputation somewhere along the line.:fight:

 

Bit of of bugger to sort at the same time as I'll need to increase the height of all of those blasted stations right along the fuselage wall by a commensurate amount. Now I know how @simmerit  felt redoing all those seats on his gobsmacker of a Chinook:

 

3 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Lovely work going on there Tony.

The idea of making your own embossed foil/s is really neat.

And yes the curry was nice, could of been a bit hotter but it was the wife`s limit of heat tolerance.

 

Cheers Simon! The curry sounds ace btw. Myself and Mrs. B has similarly different heat tolerances when it comes to Indian and Mexican food. Not helped by my tendency when with recipes to misread tsp as tbs...

 

Right. Only one other thing to report as of now is the installation of some brass poles at the rear of the aircraft,(these ones are red, rather than yellow like all the others in the reference photographs) into which I think one end of the retrieval poles slotted when not in use and stored horizontally along the available length of the cargo area:

34149166291_e837db149e_c.jpg

0.6mm brass rod in this case.

 

Right. That's afternoon tea break over and duty calls. When I get home later I'll hook the wings out of yon kit box and have a look at the spar region region in detail to see what's possible. 

 

Tony

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Easy decision in your case Tony, if you hack the wing box (kit) off and get a new take on the ceiling you will have a roof you can put all the other sadly missed off for now beams and other assorted gubbins in where you want them and missing wall-e bits too

 

It looks as if the wing load into the monococquey structure may go via those triangulated angled sections across some of the roof by the ladder shape

 

Loads of scope for loads of swank

 

Guffaw-it!

 

Ill be here to watch/help/moan my blarry head off because...

 

;)

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just remember when you make the new one that the roof goes on the top.  We don't want to see any more o' that back to front upside down inside out nonsense.

 

For what it's worth, I agree, the kit roof needs repositioned (or remade) higher inside the airframe. That should present a nice challenge for an afternoon.

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I can only offer moral support for this effort, but would gladly hand you the saw Tony. As Perdu said, the opportunity to create something more detailed than the kit roof, seems pretty hard to resist especially considering the gorgeous work that you have already done in the rest of that area.

It's the journey. 

Terry

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3 hours ago, perdu said:

Easy decision in your case Tony, if you hack the wing box (kit) off and get a new take on the ceiling you will have a roof you can put all the other sadly missed off for now beams and other assorted gubbins in where you want them and missing wall-e bits too

 

It looks as if the wing load into the monococquey structure may go via those triangulated angled sections across some of the roof by the ladder shape

 

Loads of scope for loads of swank

 

2 hours ago, hendie said:

For what it's worth, I agree, the kit roof needs repositioned (or remade) higher inside the airframe. That should present a nice challenge for an afternoon.

Norralf chaps! Of course reading all that, part of my subconscious has  just run shrieking into the wilderness of my hippocampus to express the same set of concerns that his crew had about Capt. Ahab. I shall avoid the larger implications in terms of workload and added complexity and perplexity, and simply take this one step at a time - the first of which is to simply establish a correct height for the ceiling. 

 

Herein to the first degree are the curently cramped conditions seen in lateral view:

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Should the crew have been issued with a feline, there would be little room for said creature to be vigorously rotated. I'm thinking we need to get to something more akin to this in the Upstairs Downstairs department:

34129909892_a64b328959_c.jpg

Now with wings:

34129911502_919066fd96_c.jpg

You get a better idea of the relationship between inside and outside structures here: any reduction in the depth of the spar box thingy has to address the possible impact on the way in which the wings interact with it. It's clearly do-able, but with considerable care:

34129912272_a1d5ee54a0_b.jpg

I'm not rushing into that tonight as I want to make sure all factors are taken into account before getting all medieval on it with the saw.

 

I've gotta say though - hat thoroughly doffed to Italeri regarding the upper fit between wing and fuslage:

34129910512_4085a55de7_c.jpg

That's good, very good.:D

2 hours ago, hendie said:

just remember when you make the new one that the roof goes on the top.  We don't want to see any more o' that back to front upside down inside out nonsense

Really hendie, I don't think there's any call for that sort of comment.

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54 minutes ago, Sprueloose said:

I can only offer moral support for this effort, but would gladly hand you the saw Tony. As Perdu said, the opportunity to create something more detailed than the kit roof, seems pretty hard to resist especially considering the gorgeous work that you have already done in the rest of that area.

It's the journey. 

Thanks for your support Terry it's much appreciated sir. :thumbsup2: I never thought I'd end up as a roofer in my more mature older years!

:bye:

Tony

 

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I can see what you mean about cutting a fine line concerning the roof height.

Even 3 mm rise would equate to roughly 10.5 inches.

But should the booms and tail plane face backwards, (your last pic.)

 

Simon.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

34129912792_93f85a80f5_c.jpg

 

Looking like one of Hendie's builds now!

 

On a more serious note, I would want to have a plan for strengthening the wing box area before I started cutting the kit part away. You are going to need all the strength you can get in that area.

 

Martian still muddled but impressed all the same.

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There has to be,the ceiling is lower than the upper skin and frames

 

There seems to be a  couple of stiffener boxes fed into by the triangular frames

 

The real spar pick up points must be between the skin and this visible lower structure, that triangle set must feed the loads across

 

And anyway, Tony is going to make new spars from brass

 

Or Albion Nickel silver tube

 

;)

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8 hours ago, TheBaron said:

A non-starter for me in this instance Gondor as those holes need to be sub-millimetric and my punch set only goes down to 1mm. Clearly I am under-investing in tools and need to source a <cheap> micro set if i'm going to be doing mnore of this stuff!

 

another option is:

start off with a wider strip than you need ('cos holes tend to deform the strip if you haven't got much land)

place a straight edge or rule along the center of the strip, hold firmly

with a pin, keeping it hard against the straight edge/rule "center punch" each hole location

this depression gives a nice starting point for the drill

drill holes

now cut strip to the correct width

 

at least that works for me (sometimes).

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I've gotta say though - hat thoroughly doffed to Italeri regarding the upper fit between wing and fuslage:

 

obviously a mistake on their part then.

 

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Really hendie, I don't think there's any call for that sort of comment.

34129912792_93f85a80f5_c.jpg

 

Love it !     almost Thunderbirds'ish

 

4 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

But should the booms and tail plane face backwards,

 

YES !

 

 

2 hours ago, perdu said:

There seems to be a  couple of stiffener boxes fed into by the triangular frames

 

The real spar pick up points must be between the skin and this visible lower structure, that triangle set must feed the loads across

 

agreed.    I'd be tempted to not remove the kit box completely. I think I'd add some plasticard uprights -angled to match those seen in the photo, just inset from the fuselage skin. - glued into the kit box -then trim the box back to the angled uprights.

(I know what I meant to say but the words aren't coming out right - they took all the coffee machines away at work today as we're getting a new vendor tomorrow, and my caffeine level is ultra low - sorry)

Edited by hendie
edited to try and explain my explanation
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20 hours ago, Sprueloose said:

Wondering if there isn't a way to use the details in the more realistic roof to provide the strengthening for the wings. 

 

19 hours ago, perdu said:

There has to be,the ceiling is lower than the upper skin and frames

By some judicious planning and cutting earlier, I think I've been able to acquire enough internal height without adversely affecting the strength of the wing attachments on the outside. (More on that below)

19 hours ago, perdu said:

And anyway, Tony is going to make new spars from brass

 

Or Albion Nickel silver tube

Bill = :devil: :whip: :lol:

16 hours ago, hendie said:

another option is:

...most useful and that one has now gone into the 'of immediate use' file. Thanks hendie.:thumbsup2:

16 hours ago, hendie said:

I'd be tempted to not remove the kit box completely.

Mine own instincts on the matter, which I think may work to the satisfaction of all parties.

 

Having worked out that at this scale an increase in internal height of just over 2mm was required, the first order of business was to remove that amount from the protruding box structure that the ceiling attaches to on the cargo bulkhead:

34140528202_af3a30e9fe_c.jpg

Predictably I've managed to snap the top of that bulkhead off since that photo was taken so additional husbandry required. Next, a haircut for the spar box:

33456478384_0f15f2b545_c.jpg

 

Thence, after repeated viewings from all angles, I worked out that the bulk of the region where the wings and fuselage actually attach to each other on top can be retained. The shaded regions below are the bits that need to be kept, the unshaded central portions are the parts that need to be removed:

34298002605_e4c50c1aba_c.jpg

This is crucial, as it is only along all four sides that the wings are glued into place, both horizontally across the fuselage, and as you can see from the pencil outline above, following the interior run of the fuselage walls.

 

Next matter: deciding which of these babies to go for a whirr with on the D-clone.:evil_laugh:

34257570956_9e6f6d9000_c.jpg

Brutal as these look, I'd used one of these blades back on the Sea Venom build to cut out a channel in the rear 'beak' for the arrestor hook and found them extremely versatile and controllable at a slow speed. The 25mm one of the spindle there was the tool of choice, so that I could get in close enough to the ends of the cuts. To avoid any unfortunate mistakes, an exploratory cut to begin with to make sure that  marking-out was accurate:

34298003355_8d698c1e52_c.jpg

All well and good from here, but what about inside:

34257571616_2ae70a145a_c.jpg

Just clear of the walls, as required.:speak_cool: 

 

A couple of quick runs down each side and Presto:

34298003995_5cc9841049_c.jpg

The final topping and tailing of the respective cuts at each end needed recourse to a small hand saw:

34257572736_39d339b46d_c.jpg

You can see why can't you, as the tolerances are such that you're just brushing along the wall at this point.

 

One side gone:

34257575886_d6debc9068_c.jpg

Followed by The View They Tried To Ban!

33456477294_df21534e5c_c.jpg

A naked Box!

 

Only some minor repairs need to one or two of the stringers. I'd been anticipating a bit more damage but pleased that despite the radical nature of the surgery, little harm was occasioned.

 

Now. How's that for height now?

34257577896_aa3f079e53_c.jpg

Pukka. Pretty dammned pukka. That's not the actual ceiling of course, just a slab of plasticard to establish proof of principle. Now, that's the inside optics all pretty spiffy, but what of the actual outer structural strength as far as fixing the wings on is concerned:

34171481541_25e2db76cd_c.jpg

The side butt-joins for the inner wing sections remain completely unaffected by the modification:

34302497125_7bfb42eda4_c.jpg

Looking in from the front with the wing on:

34171479711_66a5a8694a_c.jpg

...and now from the rear:

34302497705_d3e1fae7bf_c.jpg

In the above shot you can see that I didn't in the end need to cut that central section quite so high - a section of thick plasticard can reinstate that section later.

 

All that activity would seem to indicate that although the internal dimensions of this kit does need redress, this can be achieved relatively simply without harming the overall structural integrity of the airframe. 

 

The job didn't actually take all that long to do either, but what made it a less daunting proposition was being able to talk it over with you guys in preparation:

:thumbsup::thanks:

Tony

 

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ah.... you understood wot I rote then !      That's pretty much what I was trying to (very poorly) explain (we still haven't had the new coffee machines delivered at work yet so bear with me....).  Once those inner edges are cleaned up I'd add a small vertical length of thick plasticard along the length to add some rigidity, then you can add the angled section and wotnots to busy it all up.

 

seeing all this medievalness going on is making me feel bad. The only modeling time I've had in the last three weeks has been spent preparing wood, and searching for paint.  nothing worth photographing at all.

 

 

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