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PZL P.11C and G, 1/72 scale


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The PZL P.11 was, when it first appeared, the most most advanced fighter aircraft in the world. The Polish aircraft industry had gone from a standing start to creating designs that were as good as, or better than anything produced in the UK, France, Italy or Russia. Poland produced a superb monoplane fighter while the rest of the world was still refining biplanes. 

 

Sadly, the PZL P.11 appeared at a time when aircraft development, and fighter development in particular, was moving at breakneck speed. The PZL P.11 was the world's most advanced fighter only for a very short period. Despite the best efforts of the Polish aircraft industry (and those efforts were considerable), in 1939, the Polish Air Force was still relying on the definitive version of the design, the PZL P.11C as the mainstay of its fighter force. 

 

The Polish Air Force had seen where the future lay: low-wing, all-metal monoplanes with enclosed cockpits and retractable undercarriages. They had designed an aircraft of this type, the PZL P.50, but it had been stymied by the lack of a suitable engine, and time had run out to produce a viable fighter. As well as hawking around the international market, eventually settling on the MS.406, the Poles attempted to produce a more capable version of the PZL P.11. They had rejected the up-engined PZL P.24, that gave good service in the hands of the Greek Air Force, and pushed forward the PZL P.11G, with a more powerful version of the Bristol Mercury engine, an enclosed cockpit and four machine guns, but all the effort produced an aircraft with roughly the speed and firepower of a Gloster Gladiator, but with a much higher wing loading.

 

I picked up two MisterCraft PZL P.1C's and paid about seven quid for the pair. The bits match the plans I have reasonably well. The wing chord might be half a mm off, but I don't thing I would trust the plans that much!

 

Internally, there's nothing much in the box, so it's a scratch job.

33271211855_ff57215abb_k_d.jpg

 

32888299500_b2ca22adf4_k_d.jpg

 

This is all plastic card, sprue, wire and foil, and I'm fairly happy with the results.

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Mind if I sit quietly at the back and follow along?

 

The PZ P11 and 24 are such graceful designs.

 

Christian, exiled to africa

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The wing for the C version needs a little bit of alteration. Although the P.11C could be fitted with four machine guns (two in the fuselage, two in the wings), in practice the wing-mounted guns were removed from the vast majority of airframes. The additional weapons reduced the already low top speed too far, and the extra firepower was of no value if the aircraft couldn't actually catch its targets.

 

Hence, the wing guns (which are in the wrong place anyway!) and the cartridge deflectors are removed and filled.

 

33115612292_2504c3ac1a_k_d.jpg

 

There is evidence of some mould damage on the wing, which takes a bit of care to repair because of the corrugated structure. Speaking of which, the corrugations on this kit are very fine, and in my mind nicer than those on the Azur P.24 I built at the end of last year.

 

The fuselage needed some filler when it went together, which is no surprise, I guess. After that I took the opportunity to re-scribe the panel lines before fitting the wing and engine. The latter didn't get a lot of attention: it's almost invisible inside the cowling, and if I went to the effort of buildinig an exhaust system and pushrods, nobody would ever know. All the gaps around the wings were done with Kneadtite greenstuff, which can be working in and smoothed before it cures so no sanding is required, which helps to not ruin the surface detail!

 

32428303374_4c1c08f652_k_d.jpg

 

Same thing from below. The white rectangle is for a display stand, I think, although the kit doesn't provide.

 

32428288414_ed7dbb37e2_k_d.jpg

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In parallel, the P.11G moves forward!

 

When I build my Azur P.24, I made a cast of the canopy, in case I felt like doing this, so here is the silicone mould and the while milliput master I made from it.

 

33115596152_cadd869682_k_d.jpg

 

The cockpit opening is larger on the P.11G, and this is the initial savagery. The filler near the tail indicates where the kit says to put the tailplane support strut, wrongly. The square thing is a jig. More of this later.

 

32428259714_562ebcd5b0_k_d.jpg

 

Another view into the cockpit.

 

33271095115_6f76419789_k_d.jpg

 

I made up some initial canopy castings, using clear plastic from the packaging of an HPLC column from work. This was superb stuff: clear as glass, tough, and took detail well. The only thing was that not one glue I tried would stick it to anything! No solvent I was willing to try would dissolve it, epoxy, impact cement and UV-activated glue all simply rolled of it (even after solvent cleaning and keying with wet and dry!), and cyano fogged the whole thing in a flash! So, I've ordered some clear styrene sheet, which hopefully will get me further along.

 

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And back to the P.11C!

 

One of the really nice things about the Azur p.24 is the resin oil cooler matrices, which really do knock the rough efforts on this kit into the dust. Obviously replicate resin bits is a non-starter, so here's my effort. I shaved away the kit coolers, and smoothed down the area. Reference to plans and photos got me the size and form for actually modelling the things. This is Kneadtite green stuff, pressed into the plastic jig shown above, then before it cures knife-cut at (roughly) 0.25mm intervals to produce the cooling fins. Kneadtite remains flexible once it cures, so it can be shaped flat, popped out of the jig, then curved into the final position. Some stretched sprue for the mounting supports finishes the job.

 

33142890911_8e84470d2e_k_d.jpg

 

There are two braces that run from the centre of the fuselage to the axles, providing resistance to the undercarriage spreading. There are some good photos of these, which show they aren't simply cables, but are actually rigid rods, which attach to springs in the fuselage. The kit provides a weirdly shaped, overscale attempt at these, but I went with stretched sprue, thicker than one might use for rigging.

 

32456411683_ebb1acc244_k_d.jpg

 

Here's another view of the shock rods, but mainly of the tail skid. The kit article bears no resemblance to the original. This is cobbled up from steel pins (the struts, a double one at the front, a single at the rear), heavy gauge metal foil (the "shoe" on the end of the strut) and Kneadtite (the leather gaiter). About ready for a coat of primer now!

 

33271024365_b8b0f79957_k_d.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Procopius said:

Wow, I'm glad I saw this! Looks like I'm going to learn a lot about the P.11c.

Thanks Procopius! There's plenty to learn. The story around the PZL's is fascinating.

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Mitch, The central struts of undercarridge of P11 and P24 (and P1,P6,P7,P8) are  cables, not massive struts. This is a flaw of this kit. Here id photo from museum in Krakow:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_P.11#/media/File:PZLP11C_CURRENT.jpg

The machine in museum has non original too small wheels, so do not be misleaded by this.

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

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If you do not mind I giving here a link to a Polish modeller forum.  Discussion on some shot run model of P11 G with some profile of it ("white 1")

http://modelwork.pl/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=33743

It is in Polish, if you fail with google translator - just ask :)

Cheers

J-W

Edited by JWM
misprint corr.
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One more link - to a model of "G" made in 1:48 presented on Polish modeller forum. It looks for very careful scratch conversions, so visible details are not by chance (note for instance removed MG from fuselage with openings left not blinded)

http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=63121

I hope it will help you :) (and not demotivate)...

J-W

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45 minutes ago, JWM said:

Mitch, The central struts of undercarridge of P11 and P24 (and P1,P6,P7,P8) are  cables, not massive struts. This is a flaw of this kit. Here id photo from museum in Krakow:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_P.11#/media/File:PZLP11C_CURRENT.jpg

The machine in museum has non original too small wheels, so do not be misleaded by this.

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

Jerzy, many thanks for the linsk! I looked at several contemporary photos, and I felt sure they were thin rods - probably about 5-6mm diameter, but rigid, not flexible. The struts in the photos, from wartime/prewar aircraft, look very different to my eyes from the museum aircraft!

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OK, I am not considering myself any expert on PZL fighters. Seriously. In Polish modeller forums there are hundreds if more of them. So perhaps in museum did some mistake like also they did with wheels....

J-W

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I'm in, this is great :)! Superb progress, I like the radiator assembly :thumbsup2: .

I adore the PZL fighters. I had a go at this kit and their P7a a few times, it's a fun build. I didn't detail it like this, just bashed it together. None survived a trip UK to Australia some 9 years ago.

There is picture of the ancient (but still fun) Revell kit I made around 14 years ago here; again just bashed for fun after a 13 year break from the hobby. The Revell kit has no central undercarriage struts, but it was 40 years old then, 50 plus now, and exactly like me (the same age) it shows :clif: !

https://flic.kr/p/Sgvjtb

:popcorn:

 



TonyT

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Just now, JWM said:

OK, I am not considering myself any expert on PZL fighters. Seriously. In Polish modeller forums there are hundreds if more of them. So perhaps in museum did some mistake like also they did with wheels....

J-W

Jerzy, as I said above, there's a lot of data out there on the PZL fighters, which is only right as they are both historically and technically significant. I've read a good deal, as much as I can find in English, but I know I have barely scratched the surface of the subject.

 

I've mainly been using Lotnicze Monographs (Glass, Kopanski and Makowski), plus the Mushroom Guide and Andrzej Glass's Stratus series book. I confess I can't read Polish, although I'm starting to recognize and remember certain words that relate to Air Force organisation and aviation - not very useful in general, everday conversations! However, there are plenty of photos, and they are each worth a thousand words, as they say.

 

Something I have noticed is that the published plans and drawings of the P.11G vary considerably in detail: the bumps on the cowling that accomodate the valve gear on the Pegasus engine, exhaust configuration, wheel spats or no spats..

Putting all the guns in the wing isn't something that appears in any of the plans - hence, I never thought about it! It makes sense - this is how the P.24 was built, and it dispenses with the need for interruptor gear to synchronize the weapons to the propellor.

 

I'm going to carry on with mine as it is now, but who knows whether I might revisit a build like this again?

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Just now, TonyTiger66 said:

I'm in, this is great :)! Superb progress, I like the radiator assembly :thumbsup2: .

I adore the PZL fighters. I had a go at this kit and their P7a a few times, it's a fun build. I didn't detail it like this, just bashed it together. None survived a trip UK to Australia some 9 years ago.

There is picture of the ancient (but still fun) Revell kit I made around 14 years ago here; again just bashed for fun after a 13 year break from the hobby. The Revell kit has no central undercarriage struts, but it was 40 years old then, 50 plus now, and exactly like me (the same age) it shows :clif: !

https://flic.kr/p/Sgvjtb

:popcorn:

 



TonyT

Handsome, that!

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36 minutes ago, JWM said:

OK, I am not considering myself any expert on PZL fighters. Seriously. In Polish modeller forums there are hundreds if more of them. So perhaps in museum did some mistake like also they did with wheels....

J-W

 

 

In some photos I've seen, they look like cables: 

 

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

PZL+P.11c+lot.pol..jpg

 

And in others, slender struts:

 

2006_08_18_pzl_p11c_77.jpg

 

 

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Kobuz is a half-legandary prototype, since this was very fast marriage of P11 fuselage (modified) with P 24 wings and was build in summer '39. Few weeks before war started. Therefore a lot of questions are about it in Poland among people who are interesting in it. 

Regarding MG in fuselage - in the links from Polish modeller forums I gave above there is a story (legend?) that pilot (Henryk Szczęsny) of the sole PZL P 11 G was hurt by a bullet, which would be likely stopped on MG "If it was not removed" from fuselage.  So this is a testimony on lack of MGs in fuselage. BTW - Szczęsny (if you will translate his name to English it would be something like "Lucky one" or "Fortunate") via Rumunia, Malta arrived to UK and was fighting in Polish squadrons scored with some 9 killed enemy airplanes, in spring '43 after in-air collision with Fw 190 over Ruen he becames POW, then after WWII he was serving as pilot in RAF. 

Here is IPMS-Warsaw page (in Polish but  with google translator build in with funny results :) ) about P11G

http://ipms-warszawa.pl/pzl-p-11g-kobuz/

Perhaps you know this page already...

And here is about the pilot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_Szczęsny

 

Regarding undercaridge I just checked what I was bearly remeber and I know a bit more now. All family of Pulawski's fighters (P1,P6,P7,P8,P11 and P24) had the same novel idea of u/c - the shock absorbers were situated inside fuselage driven by smart designed arms. Here is figure and web page where I took it from:

https://www.biuletyn.pw.edu.pl/Nauka-i-Dydaktyka/Nauka/Daleki-zasieg-mewiego-plata.-Zygmunt-Pulawski-w-soczewce-Andrzeja-Glassa

Podwozie-nozycowe.jpg  

So you can see, that it can be cable, since it works only stabilizing arms of this triangle ("oś obrotu" - axis of ratation, "amortyzator rozciągany" - shock absorbed stretched.

Have a nice time with two PZL P11 :) - they are very nice as you know it already!

 

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

 

 

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This such a great build and I love the background and information that JWM has provided. One of the most fun things for me is not only to see wonderfully skilled modeling but also the community support!

I'll just sit quietly at the back and watch.

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Moving on a little, the P.11G now has an oil cooler too. The struts/bars will be added later. The considerable amount of filler needed for the tailplanes is clear here.

 

33229836586_95b0deafe9_k_d.jpg

 

A major difference of the P.11G was the use of a more powerful version of the basic Mercury engine. This is from a Frog Mk1 Blenheim that I acquired for the cost of postage from BM member Selwyn, and very useful it is too! I suspect that this might not be exactly what the cowling of the one example built looked like. Every plan I've seen is slightly different! It resembles at least one set of plans, and several drawings of one of the versions of the PZL P.50 that used the same engine. I've refined the cooling gills a bit, and I'll do something with the supercharger intake once it's assembled. The exhausts are slightly problematic because they too seem to differ in every set of drawings! These, designed for Blenheim wing nacelles, don't really look like any of the plans, so I will alter these, and refine the details.

 

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With the cowling together and filled, I removed the upper cooling gills where they would fowl on the wing. Whether these were cut short or removed completely on the real thing open to debate, I guess. Leaving them on would have made the view over the nose even worse, so I have gone for removal. The block of plastic card is to bring the cowling into the correct alignment - the difference arises from how the kit engines are moulded, as the Frog one has less material behind the cylinder bank.

 

32428242854_267c5be363_k_d.jpg

 

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This is probably photo o PZL P50 (first prototype) cowling (photo taken during presentation of P50 to Italian politician, minister Graff Ciano

 Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania pzl p 50  PZL jastrząb  

and second photo (this time without blisters ) pzl50-1.jpg

If it helps...:) 

J-W

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Just now, JWM said:

Indeed, but not unexplainable - because there are photos of two different prototypes (No 1 and No 2)....

J-W

The P.50 is on my hit list for a short time after these two are done! I have seen that the P.50 has a lot of differences between the prototypes, including fuselage length and shape. I did expect the engine to be consistent, though. Oh well!

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