A NOSTALGIC TRIBUTE TO FROG MODEL KITS

[adey m]

20 hours ago, 224 Peter said:

Ive just picked up this thread and read through.. talk about a trip back in time. 

 

I must have bought most of this kits in the 1960s, interestingly the two main sources for me were "Hook Cycles and Radio" on the roundabout junction of the A3 and A243, quite a cycle ride from Claygate, and another Cycle shop in Esher, at the other end of the high street from Woolies...

 

In the stash I have an unboxed 1/72 Whitley, without transfers or Instructions: it could be the Frog one, or Airfix: how can I tell the difference? 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by adey m

[Eric Mc]

I have two post FROG/Novo Russian issue Whitleys. Both are in neutral gray plastic. 

 

The Airfix Whitley only came out a couple of years ago and is world away from the FROG version in regards to detail and moulding.

[VMA131Marine]

7 hours ago, TonyW said:

 

 

 

I suspect it's a cost issue.

It used to be that the box cost more than the kit inside but once the price of oil shot up, things got reversed. An ounce or two of clear plastic deleted would be quite a saving over the whole range.

 

Tony.

The single most expensive "part" of any kit is the mold tooling that creates the plastic parts. That's what you paying the most for when you buy a plastic kit. The economics of resin kits is slightly different since polyurethane resin is much more expensive than plastic.

[VMA131Marine]

1 hour ago, adey m said:

Hi Peter, an original FROG Whitley will be moulded in a quality white plastic. If it is moulded in sky blue orange or banana green with pink spots then it will be a Russian issue.

 

Another way to be sure is that the FROG Whitley fuselage small windows are moulded on detail and the AIRFIX fuselage windows are opened out for glazing.

 

cheers, Adey

Are you sure that's the only way to tell the Airfix Whitley from the FROG kit? The Airfix tooling is only a couple of years old and has surface detail and internal detailing far beyond anything that could have been achieved by FROG 40-odd years ago. Which is another thing, if the kit has been in the stash for more than about 4 years, it's the FROG kit.

[adey m]

23 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

Are you sure that's the only way to tell the Airfix Whitley from the FROG kit? The Airfix tooling is only a couple of years old and has surface detail and internal detailing far beyond anything that could have been achieved by FROG 40-odd years ago. Which is another thing, if the kit has been in the stash for more than about 4 years, it's the FROG kit.

You are correct that there is a world and 45 years of difference between the FROG Whitley and the recent AIRFIX Whitley.

 

However it has just dawned on me that there has been another injection Whitley model kit produced in recent years, the FLY one, and the difference between the FLY and FROG ones may not be so obvious.

 

So I am going to go away and gather some material to illustrate the differences.

Edited February 18, 2018 by adey m

[stevej60]

Thank's Adey,my Boston is the exact boxing you have shown with the bump,I tend to buy(for now) aircraft I have spare decal's for I reallywant to get a 

Baltimore and Maryland so now realise which boxing to go for so again thank's for pointing me in the right direction, I know I popped a photo of the Beau a 

few post's back but here she is finished the first of my 2018 build's,

Hopefully in the next few month's I will bring in the Boston,Blenhiem,Vampire,Tempest,Typhoon and Hunter(Last three are ongoing in the BM

anniversary GB.

[adey m]

On 17/02/2018 at 12:04, 224 Peter said:

Ive just picked up this thread and read through.. talk about a trip back in time. 

 

I must have bought most of this kits in the 1960s, interestingly the two main sources for me were "Hook Cycles and Radio" on the roundabout junction of the A3 and A243, quite a cycle ride from Claygate, and another Cycle shop in Esher, at the other end of the high street from Woolies...

 

In the stash I have an unboxed 1/72 Whitley, without transfers or Instructions: it could be the Frog one, or Airfix: how can I tell the difference? 

 

 

In the stash I have an unboxed 1/72 Whitley, without transfers or Instructions: it could be the Frog one, or Airfix: how can I tell the difference?

 

Hi Peter, there is a world and 45 years of difference between the FROG Whitley and the recent AIRFIX one. The original FROG Whitley is moulded in a quality white plastic and only has 65 parts. Detailing is of the raised line type. There are no fuselage windows or door openings in the fuselage sides and these are represented by raised panel lines. Also all the flaps, ailerons, rudders and elevators are moulded solid as part of the wings and tailplanes. The bomb bays are just represented again by raised panel lines.

 

FROG Whitleys were later remoulded by Russian companies. These can appear in all sorts of packaging and moulded in all sorts of plastic colours.

 

The AIRFIX Whitley is moulded in their soft light grey plastic and has many many more parts than the FROG one, constructing the kit would feel like you are building the real thing in miniature. The obvious difference between the AIRFIX Whitley and the FROG and FLY ones is that the AIRFIX fuselage halves are broken behind the cockpit with the nose section being seperate. The FROG and FLY fuselages are moulded the full length. The panel lines are engraved or sunk. The bomb bays are included and the fuselage halves have all the windows and door opened out.

 

There has been another injection Whitley produced in recent years to a high standard, the FLY one. The differences between the FROG and FLY ones are less obvious and I will try to illustrate the differences later.

 

cheers, Adey

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by adey m

[Eric Mc]

I don't think I've seen any Fly Whitley's built. When they came out they seemed very expensive - although mainstream kits are gradually getting towards those types of prices now anyway.

 

The Fly kit will still have a lot more internal detail than the Frog one. Another obvious Frog Whitley giveaway will be that it has raised panel limes. Fly and Airfix Whitleys have recessed panel lines.

 

And for the Whitley afficianado, there is also a resin set by Flightpath which allows you to convert the Frog Whitley to a Tiger powered MkII. For the record, the Frog Whitley also appeared under the following brand names - 

 

Intech

Maquette

Modelcraft

Novo

PYB

 

[adey m]

THE FROG WHITLEY, ITS RUSSIAN RELEASES AND COMPARISONS WITH THE FLY AND AIRFIX WHITLEYS

 

 

The original FROG artwork

 

 

The full complement of parts of a Russian issue of the FROG Whitley

 

 

The FLY fuselage parts. Note that this model does not have the slots for the wing tabs or the spar that you find on the FROG Whitley. The FLY propeller blades are all seperate whereas the FROG prop and spinner assemblies are moulded in one.

 

 

Here we have fuselage and centre section parts of the AIRFIX Whitley. The most obvious difference to the other two is the Fuselage halves lacking the nose section which is constructed seperately.

 

 

The AIRFIX Whitley V

 

The FLY Whitley V

 

 

RUSSIAN RELEASES OF THE FROG WHITLEY

 

 

 

 

 

 

AND FINALLY MY FAVOURITE ARTWORK OF ALL    ..............

 

 

Adey

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by adey m

[Neil.C]

15 hours ago, adey m said:

 

 

 

The original FROG artwork

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love that artwork, the quality of the sea and sky are incredible. Certainly as good as if not better than Roy Cross.

 

I wonder who painted such a high quality image?

[224 Peter]

Adey, 

 

many thanks.. clearly I have a Novo or other Russian pressing of the Frog kit as it has on one sprue "Made in the USSR"! 

The pressing is dire, every ejector pin mark on the inside of the wings and body has a corresponding sink mark...

 

This is one I'll never build so if anyone wants it, send me a PM...!!

[keefr22]

On 2/18/2018 at 8:37 AM, Eric Mc said:

I don't think I've seen any Fly Whitley's built.

 

There's one of Tonyot's beauties in RFI;

 

There were others, but the pics have all disappeared...

 

I've got one in the stash, bought literally four days before Airfix announced theirs....

Keith

[adey m]

 

 

Is this the Armstrong Whitworth factory  ............   or an AIRFIX Whitley Group Build  ?

Edited June 18, 2020 by adey m

[adey m]

7 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

There's one of Tonyot's beauties in RFI;

 

There were others, but the pics have all disappeared...

 

I've got one in the stash, bought literally four days before Airfix announced theirs....

Keith

A dohhhhh moment Keith.  Like the time I built the MACH 2 Breguet Atlantic and then REVELL brought theirs out..............dohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

cheers, Adey

[adey m]

On 19/02/2018 at 09:38, Neil.C said:

Love that artwork, the quality of the sea and sky are incredible. Certainly as good as if not better than Roy Cross.

 

I wonder who painted such a high quality image?

Hi Neil, the date of the FROG Whitley release 1970 and the style of artwork seems to point to Eric Carless being the artist. He usually signed his box artwork somewhere low down on the picture with Carless or CARLESS. If someone out there has an original FROG box it might be fun scouring the rough seascape for his signature.

 

cheers, Adey

Edited February 20, 2018 by adey m

[adey m]

FROG ARMSTRONG WHITWORTH WHITLEY MK V / MK VII  ( 1970 - 1976 )

 

 

 

 

 

BOX STYLE 1970-1973. Parts moulded in white plastic.

 

 

BOX STYLE 1974-1976. Parts moulded in dark blue plastic.

 

 

1970-1973 issue.

 

 

1974-1976 issue.

 

 

The colour painting guide on the back of the box.

 

 

FROG Whitley VII with additional aerials on the fuselage sides.

 

 

My 1973 FROG Whitley V.

 

 

The uncluttered underneath of a FROG Whitley VII showing the neatly boxed in wheel wells.

 

 

My 1973 Whitley V . It was a present from my dad at Christmas 1973.

 

 

One of my favourite models.

 

Adey

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by adey m

[Pete in Lincs]

Adey, Great depth of knowledge and some epic research information.

Thank you.

[PhoenixII]

Hi Adey,

sorry I'm late to the party, getting through the posts slowly!

 

One thing to add regarding the Whitley. My guess is that FROG and Airfix have used the same plans for their respective kits.

If anyone has an old FROG / NOVO kit, and the new Airfix Mk.VII, the nose and tail blanks for the B.O.A.C. version from Airfix

fit the FROG version, just need a few minutes with a knife, using the Airfix part to get a fit. Small section of the FROG fuselage

needs to be removed at the nose, but on mine the fuselage width is the same.

 

It may have already been mentioned, haven't got that far! but 50% of NOVO was owned by FROG (Lines Bros.) something to do with tax!

That's partly the reason the initial 'shots' were very similar to the UK produced FROG kit's.

 

Paul

[PhoenixII]

On 08/03/2017 at 10:03 PM, adey m said:

.....................Other kits under way when FROG closed in 1976 were the Twin Mustang, Mitsubishi Rufe, Lockheed Ventura, and Bell Airacobra

Hi Adey,

don't know about the others, but the Rufe was released in late '75, early '76, 'cos I got one, may still have it (un-built!)

Last two large aircraft models I think FROG released were the B-17E and the Lancaster, these two were just 'under the wire'.

Toy shop in Burton upon Trent were selling them for 0.95p each

 

To pick on a repeating theme, there WERE two moulds for the Lightning F6, first originated with Hasegawa.

The 'weird' 1/96th scale is logical if you've been brought up on imperial measurements,

1/24th = 1" to 2'

1/48th = 1" to 4' (or quarter scale in the US)

1/72nd = 1" to 6'

1/96th  = 1" to 8'

1/144th = 1" to 12'

Where 1/32nd, 1/100th and 1/200th came from.................... 

Paul

Edited February 20, 2018 by PhoenixII
finger problems!

[adey m]

On 18/02/2018 at 02:59, stevej60 said:

Thank's Adey,my Boston is the exact boxing you have shown with the bump,I tend to buy(for now) aircraft I have spare decal's for I reallywant to get a 

Baltimore and Maryland so now realise which boxing to go for so again thank's for pointing me in the right direction, I know I popped a photo of the Beau a 

few post's back but here she is finished the first of my 2018 build's,

Hopefully in the next few month's I will bring in the Boston,Blenhiem,Vampire,Tempest,Typhoon and Hunter(Last three are ongoing in the BM

anniversary GB.

Steve, apologies for my not commenting earlier, your FROG Beaufighter TF10 is wonderful. Built exactly from the box as FROG intended by the look of it, even with the original decal option too. Thank you for posting, I look forward to seeing more.

 

will you be at Sword and Lance in April ?

 

regards, Adey

[adey m]

9 hours ago, PhoenixII said:

Hi Adey,

don't know about the others, but the Rufe was released in late '75, early '76, 'cos I got one, may still have it (un-built!)

Last two large aircraft models I think FROG released were the B-17E and the Lancaster, these two were just 'under the wire'.

Toy shop in Burton upon Trent were selling them for 0.95p each

 

To pick on a repeating theme, there WERE two moulds for the Lightning F6, first originated with Hasegawa.

 

Paul

Good to hear from you Paul.

 

In late 1976 there were adverts in model magazines for quite cheap FROG kits. I ordered a Master, Attacker and Lancaster. They arrived just in plastic bags.

The Lancaster parts were sealed in a plastic bag together with its decals and instruction sheet. All came moulded in dark blue plastic.

 

I remember that the FROG BAC Lightning had an identical copy of an AIRFIX jet pilot.

 

Adey

[stevej60]

2 hours ago, adey m said:

will you be at Sword and Lance in April ?

Many thank's Adey, it's an OOB build and I tried to save as many of the original decal's as possible,I'll pop a photo of the  other build's as completed.

I've never made Sword and lance to date even though I'm only twenty minutes up the road  I'll check the date for this year.

[adey m]

On 19/02/2018 at 09:38, Neil.C said:

Love that artwork, the quality of the sea and sky are incredible. Certainly as good as if not better than Roy Cross.

 

I wonder who painted such a high quality image?

FROG WHITLEY ARTWORK ARTIST MYSTERY

 

Since  my reply about who the artist of the Whitley artwork could be I have a bit of a conundrum. According to my FROG history book Eric Carless was the FROG artist from 1966 to 1970 and he painted many of my favourite FROG box art. As the FROG Whitley was released in 1970 it would be okay surely to presume that he would have prepared its artwork in 1969 or 1970 ? Let us compare the Eric Carless artwork for the Beaufighter with the Whitley's artwork............then I will throw a spanner in the works...............

 

 

 

 

Very similar picture composition on the Beaufighter which appeared in 1969.

If you look closely at the bottom left of the painting you can make out the artist's signature Carless.

 

 

Here is a close up of the Carless  signature.

 

So if somone can find a Carless  signature on the Whitley artwork then there will be no doubt that Eric Carless painted it.

 

HOWEVER     .............

 

just to throw that spanner in the works..........

 

  

 

we now have the artwork on the HE 111 which appeared in 1973. The artist's signature is visible at bottom left of the picture......it is YOUNG.

 

Young produced a small number of FROG artworks in 1971-1972 such as the Hellcat and Wildcat.

 

A difference in the painting style which I can see is that the Carless aircraft are sharper in detail and outline than Young's.

 

Therefore it seems very likely that Carless painted the Whitley artwork.

 

Adey

Edited February 21, 2018 by adey m

[Pete in Lincs]

Ah, so there is a history book.

I had a look online, the cheapest I can find is over thirty quid for a used copy!

 

I also had a look on the bay and found a couple of Frog Whitleys for sale. One has only one day left.

Lots of other Frog kits on there too (some at silly prices). 

[Neil.C]

Glad you sorted out the artwork conundrum Adey.

 

Obviously the Carless artwork is superior, certainly in my eyes, to the example of Young's work.

 

Young's is certainly very good but the Carless examples are beautiful.