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Paul Bradley

USAF Considering Light Attack A/C Purchase

29 posts in this topic

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5 minutes ago, Paul Bradley said:

Probably won't happen if the Air Force is still run by fighter jocks who consider anything with a propeller to be unglamourous.....:P

And reported on by journalists who casually bandy around terms like "throwback".

 

They not considering the Scorpion, then?

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So the USAF is experiencing a shortage of pilots and is considering buying a large number of low performance types ? And who will be flying these aircrafts if there's a shortage of pilots ??? When the human resources are low it makes sense to keep in service the types that can perform a broad range of missions, not those that can only be useful in a very limited combat environment. The whole article makes little sense to me....

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Well, our new  fuhrer leader is promising a yuge increase in defence spending.....

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That is what I like to hear, a return to proper aircraft with props. 

In my experience defence spending increases are followed by defence cuts. The only thing that comes of defence boom and bust is that when the cuts arrive we find ourselves with lots of surplus equipment that nobody has any idea of what to do with, and loads more projects that get cancelled without leaving the drawing after a kings ransom has been wasted on them.

Politics only gets in the way of administration and government.

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The air force has a pilot shortage which is also coupled to an attitude problem.

The UAV sortie rate pushed this a while back and it was the stance of "must be operated by trained pilots" which then added to the strain. A solution was to use a WW2 idea of using sergeant pilots (NCO's) who were eminently capable of doing the job, but this went against the grain...

 

This also shows the mentality of the anti-A-10 mafia who ignore the fact that the rifleman on the ground knows what works best in CAS combat.

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I  remember the "lightweight affordable fighter competition " in the seventies.  This sounds familiar. 

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I always liked the Bronco...

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Posted (edited)

On 1/3/2017 at 7:36 AM, hairystick said:

This also shows the mentality of the anti-A-10 mafia who ignore the fact that the rifleman on the ground knows what works best in CAS combat.

 

The problem is that the rifleman may know what he wants to see from an aircraft attacking the enemy positions ahead of him but he generally has no clue on what is involved in getting that aircraft to arrive there and attacking the enemy. The rifleman has no idea of the threats that his supporting aircraft has to go through, he doesn't know how many tankers are needed for that aircraft and all the other aircrafts that have to enable that one to attack the enemy, has no idea of the EW support required, no idea of the many command and control issues. The average rifleman also generally has no idea about the logistics involved and no idea about the munition expenditures required to complete the mission using the different weapons and tactics. What the rifleman generally want is something that will eliminate the threat quickly and generally does not give a damn if using a type of aircraft or the other means risking 2 pilots or 20, he cares little if in order to achieve the mission it's necessary to send 2 or 10 aircrafts, he's not overly bothered if a certain type needs twice the ammunition of another to vapourize that machine gun that's holding him down or if using one or another means that a faster mission turnaround is possible. At least that's what I was interested in when I was a rifleman... others may have more interest in the different aspects but I doubt that a conversation about CAS among riflemen will involve concepts like "the new F-145 does not require EW support, so with the number of tanker slots available it's possible to have more aircrafts on the mission as we don't have to refuel the dedicated EW types. The old F-138 on the other hand was completely multirole so didn't need cover from oher types. The F-154 though has a very good sensor suite and can better identify the enemy at night.." or similar

Someone however have to look at all the various aspects... not to mention fitting them in a certain budget with a whole load of other items

Edited by Giorgio N
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The rifleman probably doesn't like their aircraft which is protecting them, or inserting/recovering them becoming an additional problem for those on the ground i.e. Black Hawk Down.

A fighter jet being used in the ground attack role has a very nice signature for manpads and a cheapo lightweight aircraft which has been "massaged" into the GA role becomes an easier target in an evolved battle arena.

In Afganistan it was recognised that it took a while for the Bone or Buff to get there from Diego and you might be "put on hold" for a short while.

 

The answer is obviously "somewhere" in the grey area in between all the aircraft types.

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On 3/21/2017 at 0:23 AM, hairystick said:

The rifleman probably doesn't like their aircraft which is protecting them, or inserting/recovering them becoming an additional problem for those on the ground i.e. Black Hawk Down.

A fighter jet being used in the ground attack role has a very nice signature for manpads and a cheapo lightweight aircraft which has been "massaged" into the GA role becomes an easier target in an evolved battle arena.

In Afganistan it was recognised that it took a while for the Bone or Buff to get there from Diego and you might be "put on hold" for a short while.

 

The answer is obviously "somewhere" in the grey area in between all the aircraft types.

 

Mm, what you could call a 'neverplane'.

 

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The old A-1 Skyraider was legendary in Vietnam (with USN, USAF, and VNAF) for it's load carrying abilities and close support exploits (not to mention Special Ops support). However, once the SA-7 appeared on the scene, the aircraft was pretty much a sitting duck. In fact , I don't recall if A-1's had any installed IRCM at all? 

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On 25/3/2017 at 8:27 PM, Slater said:

The old A-1 Skyraider was legendary in Vietnam (with USN, USAF, and VNAF) for it's load carrying abilities and close support exploits (not to mention Special Ops support). However, once the SA-7 appeared on the scene, the aircraft was pretty much a sitting duck. In fact , I don't recall if A-1's had any installed IRCM at all? 

 

The USAF Spads started carrying the SUU-25 flare dispenser pod to counter the threat of IR guided aircrafts while some USN aircrafts received the AN/ALE-29 kit.

In any case the USN was already in the process of phasing out the A-1 at that point, while USAF and VNAF aicrafts operated for a few more years.

The presence of MANPADS makes any kind of low level attack dangerous, as discovered in those same years by the Israeli over Sinai. The idea of aircrafts flying low and slow for hours picking one after the other all the targets passed by the ground forces is something that is only possible in completely asymmetric war conditions. It's easy to say that the USAF (or any other major air force) has to buy more A-10 or even less performing types now that we only see "war on terror" style operations, if however next year the same air force find itself against a more sophisticated enemy all those low cost types would be grounded because they would have no chance of survival. Not really the best way to save money..

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1 hour ago, Paul Bradley said:

Good article in Aviation magazine about the IOMAX Archangel - used in combat by UAEAF and looks pretty capable.

 

http://www.iomax.net/archangel/

 

I confess it looks like a kit by a ten year old when ALL the optional parts are glued on plus a few bits left over from other kits :-)

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1 hour ago, Jeepboy said:

 

I confess it looks like a kit by a ten year old when ALL the optional parts are glued on plus a few bits left over from other kits :-)

That's funny. I've always thought that she looked like a modern Ju 87.  

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Saw the Archangel's predecessor (AT802U Aitractor) in action in Egypt in 2014. Under the Treaty of Peace, UAV were prohibited to operated in the zone adjacent the border with Israel.  So, the Airtractor was being used as a "manned UAV" - long loiter, overnight surveillance/strike asset for curfew enforcement. A 250 pound PGM makes short work of the family car, that's for sure!

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13 hours ago, GMK said:

Saw the Archangel's predecessor (AT802U Aitractor) in action in Egypt in 2014. Under the Treaty of Peace, UAV were prohibited to operated in the zone adjacent the border with Israel.  So, the Airtractor was being used as a "manned UAV" - long loiter, overnight surveillance/strike asset for curfew enforcement. A 250 pound PGM makes short work of the family car, that's for sure!

 

Very interesting, what I've read of the use of UAEs aircrafts over Yemen (or whoever the aircrafts are...) mentioned tactics very similar to the ones used by UAVs: long night operations flown at a level outside the threat of small arms fire, the use of the sensors suite for surveillance and, when needed, LGBs are dropped without descending at low level. I'd say it fits pretty well with your definition of manned UAVs. And at the same time makes for a very different use compared to the old idea of the light attack aircraft flying low strafing the enemy...

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11 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Very interesting, what I've read of the use of UAEs aircrafts over Yemen (or whoever the aircrafts are...) mentioned tactics very similar to the ones used by UAVs: long night operations flown at a level outside the threat of small arms fire, the use of the sensors suite for surveillance and, when needed, LGBs are dropped without descending at low level. I'd say it fits pretty well with your definition of manned UAVs. And at the same time makes for a very different use compared to the old idea of the light attack aircraft flying low strafing the enemy...

 

They were reported to us (military observers - rubbish job) as "laser JDAMs" but 250 pound ones. *shrug*

 

The Egyptian ones (based at El-Arish) were ex-UAE aircraft "gifted". But I agree, it's a completely different to the use case of the OV-10G+ in Iraq, recently. 

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On 2/28/2017 at 2:15 PM, pigsty said:

And reported on by journalists who casually bandy around terms like "throwback".

 

They not considering the Scorpion, then?

Yes, they are

 

The Scorpion and the AT-6 will participate in the flyoff this summer

 

Cheers

John

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On 3/30/2017 at 4:08 PM, Thud4444 said:

That's funny. I've always thought that she looked like a modern Ju 87.  

 

Now there's a thought...

 

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On 14/04/2017 at 9:20 PM, kstater94 said:

Yes, they are

 

The Scorpion and the AT-6 will participate in the flyoff this summer

 

Cheers

John

Is the A-29 involved? It did beat the AT-6 in USAF competition, after all. 

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