Basilisk Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 As far as I know, German fighters had been delivered to the units with a "Stamkenzeichen" consisting of four letters. The units then removed this marking and added the Unit markings. How was the "Stamkenzeichen" removed? I am asking because it doesn't show on period pictures as overpainted. Or was it? Does someone know? Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I'd read somewhere that the paint used for Stamkenzeichen was temporary distemper type paint that was supposed to be removable, I don't know if that was true but... ...I've seen pictures of aircraft where the letters have been removed and left a bright fresh impression that they were there in the underlying paint, I've also seen pictures where they have been over painted either with fresh camouflage/standard finish or partially obliterated with mottle, I've also seen pictures where the new markings were simply over painted leaving the Stamkenzeichen underneath, I've also seen pictures of aircraft where they were left in place but the squadron emblems applied. Unfortunately, I don't have time to go searching my references to find examples of such but I'm sure Mr Google will turn something if you look hard enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elger Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 coincidentally I know of a Heinkel 219 that was in use with the training unit of NJG1 and reportedly did not have its Stamkenzeichen removed because it was not technically in use in a combat role. Not seen pictures though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I had posted a similar question about two months ago: Consensus is that the ferry codes were applied with a temporary black paint, and upon delivery, were washed off in preparation for proper squadron markings. They should be found on the underside of wings as well, but the particular subject I was studying had these painted out - or at least appeared that way as there were darker patches in those locations. regards, Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Was the black paint applied to the undersides of He III's, late B of B and onwards, the same "Stamkenzeichen" paint? Just wondering whether to go for a temporary and patchy black finish over permanent blue, or was it permanent black delivered from the factory by Jan 41? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Ossington said: Was the black paint applied to the undersides of He III's, late B of B and onwards, the same "Stamkenzeichen" paint? Just wondering whether to go for a temporary and patchy black finish over permanent blue, or was it permanent black delivered from the factory by Jan 41? I would assume it would be the same for all factory delivered aircraft, but that is just my guess, and no reason to think it was not standard in 1941 as it appears on period photo even into late war era. For your Heinkel, search for b/w photos of your particular subject, as well as the unit and the period to find specific examples. Just a broad search of 'late 1940' gives some examples where the coded locations on the underside of wings are squares of lighter colour than the surrounding area. regards, Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Thanks for your replies. Does make sense to use some distemper type paint to apply these codes. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonar Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) According to various data in Michael Ullmann's 'Luftwaffe Colours', a permanent night/black camouflage was not introduced until 1943 (7124.22 later replaced by 7126.22). The earlier, removable night camouflage (7120.22) was supposed to be applied over a coat of 'insulating lacquer' (JS 238). The insulating lacquer was to be "sprayed saturated criss-cross twice over" and all areas "painted in shade 65 (blue) must be oversprayed with insulating lacquer." After a minimum of six hours, overnight was recommended, the night camouflage could be applied. The recommended method was with "ceiling rollers" making a "saturated application of colour in the direction of flight moving the roller backwards and forwards once only." These instructions were not always followed; I've seen pictures of downed aircraft in 1940 which clearly show the night camouflage to have been very roughly slapped on with mops or brushes. Emphasis of the temporary nature of this painting was supplied in the instructions for its removal. "The night camouflage must be removed without fail after a maximum of eight days' operations (or earlier if damage has occurred.)" Again, how rigorously such instructions were adhered to is anyone's guess. Cheers Steve Edited February 26, 2017 by Stonar can't spell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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