AZ Models 1/72 Bf-109G versions and boxings

[Smudge]

I have finally picked up a few of these cracking 109G kits from AZ Models. I would like to try and get as many of the different 'G' versions as practicably possible, at least to try and cover some of the more obvious differences. 

So I was hoping someone might be kind enough to help me out with some of the designations. For example;

 

What is the 'WNF' boxing?

What is a 'Diana'?

G-6AS 'Hohenjager' unusual all over grey colour schemes, but is it a different type? (I'm getting one anyway!)

 

I have some knowledge of the AS cowlings 090/100/110. Is there a boxing with the 110 cowling?

 

I appreciate that this is potentially a can of worms, so I am just looking for some help with what AZ are offering in their boxes,and how best to cover all the 'Gustav' versions.

 

Cheers Guys. 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

WNF and Diana are different production lines, with various individual peculiarities.  Yes, the G-6AS should be noticeably different - in the fine detail of bumps under the nose, anyway.

 

Additional boxings of this kit are available from Kora, with added parts.

[Beefy]

WNF stands for Wiener Neustädter Flugzeugwerke  ( Wiener Neustadt aircraft works )

This explains the difference between the two.

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/g10/g10.htm

[Duncan B]

You are going to end up buying lots of identical plastic in different boxes in a lot of cases (the various G10's and the various AS kits are all the same plastic for example with the possible exception of the ERLA G10?). It will be up to you to fill, scribe and tinker to get the details correct for each variant if you are that bothered, if not then you'll be happy.

 

Duncan B

[MDriskill]

Bf 109G's were produced in three locations--Messerschmitt in Regensburg, WNF near Vienna, and Erla in Leipzig. The "110" version of the late refined cowling was unique to Erla G-10's. AZ has announced that version, but to the best of my knowledge has not yet released it. The only mainline kit of the Erla G-10 is, rather surprisingly, the recent very nice Revell one in 1/32 scale.

 

The fascinating "Diana" production line was located in abandoned railway tunnels near Tisnov in the then Czech Protectorate. It was actually run by WNF, with a different supply "chain" for most parts, but differences between Vienna and Tisnov production are very minor. Diana G-10's were the basis for the post-war Avia S.99 and S.199 as well.

 

As already mentioned, the AZ G-10's released so far all have the same plastic as far as I know, and represent the WNF/Diana-built aircraft.

 

For what it's worth, the Fine Molds 1/72 kit of the Bf 109G-10 represents Regensburg production, and is beautifully done.

 

Two superb books on these late 109's are "Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10/U4 Production and Operational Service" by JaPo; and "Bf 109 Late Versions Camouflage & Markings" by MMP Books.

Edited February 25, 2017 by MDriskill

[Smudge]

Thank you for those replies, I am now a little bit more knowledgeable. Most of my reference books on the 109 are now quite ancient and do not have a lot of this info. 

 

Duncan B, yes I take your point, a lot of the plastic is the same, it's just trying to work out which boxes to get so I don't miss something. I now have a better idea of what I'm looking at, cheers. 

 

Graham, I should have put the question better:

 

Is the G-6AS 'Hohenjager' different to a standard G-6AS?

 

 I believe Hohenjager alludes to a high altitude performance, although outwardly I do not see anything unusual on the box top picture?

 

Cheers. 

[Graham Boak]

No.  The DB605AS engine was a high-altitude variant, with the larger compressor from the DB603.  In that sense all the AS-engined variants, as well as the later DB605D-engined variants (G-10, K) were high altitude fighters, which is what Hohenjager means.  Bear in mind that we are talking about operating over 20,000ft, which was not the Fw190's strong point.  I've not seen a totally convincing argument as to why some of these aircraft were painted in RLM76 overall.  It may be that the units, or sub-units, operating in this scheme were dedicated to the top cover role, but in that case a somewhat darker shade (like PRU Blue) would seem more appropriate.  The Germans had a long-running requirement for better performance at higher altitudes (fear of the B-29) which eventually led to the acceptance of the "big compressor" 109s as an interim solution, with the Ta152 following, and the turbocharged BV155C as a back-stop.

 

Well, maybe.  The German use of specialist fluid injection (GM-1) in some variants to gain better performance at higher altitudes may mean that some G-6AS had these and some didn't, in which case these would have additional access behind the cockpit.  Some 109s did, and some didn't, but linking this in any way to the G-6AS is supposition on my part.  Somehow I doubt that the kit reflects this potential difference, but you never know.  Deeper digging in modern references will probably help.  I can also recommend the MMP book - just wish I could remember all of it.

[FalkeEins]

G-6/AS Höhenjäger" covered here on my blog

http://falkeeins.blogspot.fr/2016/12/hellblau-uber-alles-overall-rlm-76-bf.html

 

G-6/AS 'Red 2' as per the AZ boxing   -  see also my articles in Model Aircraft Magazine June/July 2014 (more pics of 'Red 2')

http://falkeeins.blogspot.fr/2012/08/hans-dittes-ex-hispano-bf-109-g-10.html

 

 

[Smudge]

Thank you very much, chaps. Very comprehensive answers.

 

Thanks for the link to your site FalkeEins. I will have to bookmark it and have a good look at my leisure.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[FZ6]

If you are building the G6/AS you will find some fit problems closing the fuselage.

 

The link below explains the issue and the recommended fix from AZ themselves.

 

 

Hope this is of use to you,

 

Mark

 

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by FZ6

[JackG]

So for the AS version of the G-6, Kora boxing is the better route to go?

 

regards,

Jack

[The wooksta V2.0]

Alternatively, Revell's G-10 and all the G specific spares left over in the AZ 109H kit.  There's at least a complete wing, which sorts out the Revell's major flaw - the too wide u/c track.

Edited February 27, 2017 by The wooksta V2.0
Detail Gestapo

[Graham Boak]

You also have to address the too-small prop, and the symmetric cowling? However, the precise shape of the G-6AS nose is unlikely to be represented by the Revell shape.

 

The Kora kits use the AZ G tooling - at least the one I have does, but that isn't a G-6AS.  I believe that the others do too.

[JackG]

So at the moment, a proper and complete 109G-6AS has not been boxed yet in the gentleman's scale?

[The wooksta V2.0]

The G specific spares left over from the AZ H.

[Smudge]

6 hours ago, FZ6 said:

If you are building the G6/AS you will find some fit problems closing the fuselage.

 

(link to build and input from AZ)

 

Hope this is of use to you,

 

 

 

That certainly is very useful. I think I remember that, but had forgotten, so thank you, Mark.

[Dave Fleming]

Visually, is there any difference in the fuselage between the Regensburg and WNF aircraft?

[Smudge]

1 hour ago, The Wooksta! said:

Alternatively, Revell's G-10 and all the G specific spares left over in the AZ 109H kit.  There's at least a complete wing, which sorts out the Revell's major flaw - the too wide u/c track.

Wooksta,

I have just pulled my Revell G-10 out of the stash and decided to make it as a warm up for the AZ collection. As I have it I thought I might as well. Comparing it to the AZ kits it is immediately clear that this is not in the same league. It's not that bad, but I certainly wouldn't get another when the AZ kits are only a couple of £ more. I have extended the undercart bays in towards the fuselage using the AZ kit as a guide. In comparison the AZ legs are probably only a mm or so further inboard, so not a major issue.

Revell's small propellor and oversize spinner are really noticeable. Sadly there isn't a spare spinner in any of my AZ boxes, so I will splash out on a Quickboost replacement. As Graham says, the cowling isn't quite 100% either, but might scrub up ok with a bit of work.

 

[Dave Fleming]

Don't forget the solid carb intake!

[Smudge]

8 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

Don't forget the solid carb intake!

 

Trusty drill bits at the ready 

[Smudge]

10 hours ago, JackG said:

So at the moment, a proper and complete 109G-6AS has not been boxed yet in the gentleman's scale?

 

I think if you can overcome the fuselage fit problem on the AZ kit, then it's a pretty good representation of a G-6AS. Hopefully some of the later boxings will have a better fuselage moulding. I haven't got the G-6AS yet, but it's definitely on the list.

 

I will stick my neck out here (as a 109 novice) and say that I have read (disclaimer) that the 109G-6AS was a stop gap before the introduction of the DB605AS engined G-10. It was a means of using up G-6 airframes and uprating them, so to speak, with the DB605AS.  As such they could be found with various combinations of short/tall tail fin and rudder and standard/tall tail wheel. So for a G-6AS you basically need to work from a period photo and model a specific aircraft in the appropriate configuration.

 

A couple of days ago I didn't know this, but I think I'm learning. If that's all nonsense, please feel free to correct me  

[Jan Polc]

10 hours ago, Smudge said:

Wooksta,

I have just pulled my Revell G-10 out of the stash and decided to make it as a warm up for the AZ collection. As I have it I thought I might as well. Comparing it to the AZ kits it is immediately clear that this is not in the same league. It's not that bad, but I certainly wouldn't get another when the AZ kits are only a couple of £ more. I have extended the undercart bays in towards the fuselage using the AZ kit as a guide. In comparison the AZ legs are probably only a mm or so further inboard, so not a major issue.

Revell's small propellor and oversize spinner are really noticeable. Sadly there isn't a spare spinner in any of my AZ boxes, so I will splash out on a Quickboost replacement. As Graham says, the cowling isn't quite 100% either, but might scrub up ok with a bit of work.

 

Write me to [email protected], we shall try to solve your propeller/spinner problem from our "company spares"... :-)

Jan

[MDriskill]

11 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

Visually, is there any difference in the fuselage between the Regensburg and WNF aircraft?

 

The image below is from the aforementioned MMP book, "Bf 109 Late Versions Camouflage and Markings," and shows the cowling details from each of the three manufacturers, which is where the most noticeable differences lie.

 

As you can see the bulges over the gun breeches are of slightly different depth on MTT and WNF G-10's, and there is a slight difference in how they terminate under the windscreen. The Erla aircraft have a quite different cowl, the so-called "110" design mentioned above, with a better integrated bulge on the port side, a different oil cooler, and many subtle differences in the paneling.

 

There were other subtle differences elsewhere on the fuselage, too. For example the WNF aicraft carried the MK 108 nose cannon and had a small access hatch for its compressed air charging bottle on the starboard rear fuselage. MTT machines used the MG 151 in the nose. The MMP book has excellent 1/48 side views of all late 109 versions illustrating such items--again, I can't recommend that book highly enough to the 109G fan.

 

[Greenshirt]

This is like a game, "find the differences in the two photos". 

 

It it took me while, but I did find them. Yes, very subtle and in my preferred scale of 1/72 I'd be challenged to find it. An expert may quickly see it, but not I. 

[Dave Fleming]

I can see that, again in 1/72 I think it will be on the 'choose to ignore list'! (But glad to know!)

 

The Erla design is just completely different that it's easy to spot.