giemme Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) On 13/10/2017 at 16:29, Spookytooth said: Just caught up on this one G. and you doing a wonderful job mate. Looking forward to seeing more. Simon. Thanks Simon! Wait no more: here's a new WE progress report Ailerons: I decided I'll glue them in before starting the painting stage. The deal braker for me is that I need to add the hinge covers, which go across the fixed wing to reach the moving parts. Meanwhile, more plastic shims were needed Here's a dry fit of the ailerons in place, using blue tak Blue tak not quite holding up on starboard aileron - another reason for gluing it in permanently before painting Anyway, I'll glue them in once the wings are mated to the fuselage. Prior to that, I wanted to sort the wingtip lights; if you remember, I had plounge molded some clear plastic on the wing tip shape Plastic wingtip cut off using a razor saw Test fit of the clear cover Then I used some stretched clear sprue to reproduce the lamp/light bulb or whatever you call it Painted accordingly with Tamiya Clear paints Fairing in the clear covers wasn't the easiest of the tasks and I'll have to replace the blue one (this is already the second attempt) Before joining wings to fuselage; there is an additional cockpit air intake right in front of the windshield, which the kit supplies in this form So I plounge molded a replacement and cut it out with a razor blade Glued in place with Tamiya Green Cap Eventually: This was left to cure overnight. Comments welcome, as ever Ciao Edited October 16, 2017 by giemme 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Great work as ever G. The ailerons look smart and the wing tip lights too. Love the little air scoop moulding, looks a lot better. Keep up the good work my friend. Simon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Now if you had some Contrail tube, you could have cut the scoop from that like I do. Only joking it looks perfect as it is. I love Tamiya clear paints for navigation light bulbs or covers, but shouldn't that be green not blue. Having spent years looking at them I know they look blue but the standard colours are red ( port ) and green ( starboard ). Sorry to be pedantic, a new word for you to look up. Cheers Johm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, Biggles87 said: but shouldn't that be green not blue. Having spent years looking at them I know they look blue but the standard colours are red ( port ) and green ( starboard ) Oh-oh .... I just followed the kit painting directions, without checking - looks like I might have been lazy (once more ... ) Do you happen to have any links on the subject, about WWII aircraft? 22 minutes ago, Biggles87 said: Sorry to be pedantic, a new word for you to look up. You are not pedantic at all, John - thank you very much for your comment and for the heads up (and I already knew the word, it's very similar to the Italian translation "pedante" ) 1 hour ago, Spookytooth said: Great work as ever G. The ailerons look smart and the wing tip lights too. Love the little air scoop moulding, looks a lot better. Keep up the good work my friend. Simon. Cheers Simon, thanks! I'll try, looks like I definitely need to rework on starboard light, as per John's post Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 hours ago, giemme said: Fairing in the clear covers wasn't the easiest of the tasks ... . Giorgio, Did you consider this? Would be easier to fair in, I think. With your mad skills, it would be a snap for you to build the lens compartment and to mask off the lens cover. Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gene K said: Giorgio, Did you consider this? Thanks Gene. I realize I haven't expanded much on the wingtip lights subject, but there was far more job that went into them than what it may seem from my post. It is already "like that", meaning that part of the clear portion will remain unmasked and consequently painted like the rest of the wing; the real problem is that my first attempt was at overlapping the clear cover to the wing plastic, but this material (APET) doesn't react very well to filing/sanding: it tends to de-bond and come off much before you can remove any significant portion of thickness. The best thing so far seems to be what I attained with port light (red), that is cutting it to match the grey plastic profile as much as possible, with virtually no overlapping. I have to source some clear PS and see if it works better for this kind of job (should react positively to Tamiya Green Cap, unlike this APET) - on the other hand, it probably won't be as transparent as APET. Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, giemme said: ... there was far more job that went into them [wingtip lights] than what it may seem from my post. Actually, seemed to me you did your usual detailed work, and in that regard, I appreciate how much you dedicate to each portion of every build! The lights really look excellent. 6 minutes ago, giemme said: ... the real problem is that my first attempt was at overlapping the clear cover to the wing plastic I see. I initially thought it may be easier to fair a larger piece of clear plastic back to a larger cutout as indicated by the the panel lines I highlighted. I understand now that the clear material doesn't sand well. I thought in one of your previous builds that you filled the light cut out with clear sprue sanded to shape (with a hole drilled in where the bulb goes filled with appropriate color)? Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Incredibly detailed work Giorgio. I still don’t know how you have the patience! Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 38 minutes ago, Gene K said: thought in one of your previous builds that you filled the light cut out with clear sprue sanded to shape (with a hole drilled in where the bulb goes filled with appropriate color)? Correct: I did that on this very build for the C202, and also previously on a Me109. But since I'm never really happy with what I do, I thought this way they would look much more realistic... Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, PlaStix said: Incredibly detailed work Giorgio. I still don’t know how you have the patience! Kind regards, Stix Thanks Stix! I don't know either, must be some sort of disease Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Biggles87 said: but shouldn't that be green not blue. Having spent years looking at them I know they look blue but the standard colours are red ( port ) and green ( starboard ) I believe that actually depends on the colour of the bulb (or lamp I think is the correct term) used. If an aircraft has 'blue' starboard nav lights (& I've seen a few), the 'bulb' is yellow - so it shows green. If the light is green, it has a clear bulb. That's what I was told by a techie a lonnnnnggg time ago, anyway! I tend to usually hedge my bets & mix clear green & blue, making a bluey-green! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 50 minutes ago, giemme said: But since I'm never really happy with what I do, I thought this way they would look much more realistic... Again, that depends on the aircraft! If they use clear (or yellow!) bulbs, they'll have transparent red or green covers, if they use coloured bulbs they have clear ones....!! Keith Edit - sorry Giorgio, I'd managed to miss your update so posted the last two posts before I saw today's excellent update - please ignore my waffling...!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, keefr22 said: I believe that actually depends on the colour of the bulb (or lamp I think is the correct term) used. If an aircraft has 'blue' starboard nav lights (& I've seen a few), the 'bulb' is yellow - so it shows green. If the light is green, it has a clear bulb. That's what I was told by a techie a lonnnnnggg time ago, anyway! I tend to usually hedge my bets & mix clear green & blue, making a bluey-green! Keith So, what you are saying is that blue is correct, or totally incorrect either way? Just now, keefr22 said: Again, that depends on the aircraft! If they use clear (or yellow!) bulbs, they'll have transparent red or green covers, if they use coloured bulbs they have clear ones....!! Keith In this case, I have a very detailed reference pic showing a clear cover. So it's definitely a coloured bulb Thanks K Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Confusing isn't it? Whichever way it's done the light on the starboard side should show green. Perhaps Japanese aircraft have blue starboard lights! Hasegawa and Tamiya instructions usually state blue for the starboard light. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Biggles87 said: Confusing isn't it? Definitely! This made me go back and check my previous builds. Of course for the C202 I painted starboard light blue, as per Hasegawa instructions; the only ref pic I have for the subject is a C202 one, showing a clear cover. The lighting doesn't allow to see the bulb, though. I did the same on a BF109 G6 (Academy), following the kit painting instructions. Then I checked my refs for my F-4C build, and this came up: I know in this case the cover is colored, but it looks definitely blue to me... Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 19 hours ago, giemme said: So, what you are saying is that blue is correct, or totally incorrect either way? No Giorgio, it could be either correct or incorrect.... As I said, I was sorry I'd posted not having read your original post where you'd used clear blue painted sprue under a clear cover - in that case, on a real aircraft, the bulb would be green - as John rightly says a starboard nav. light must show green. Blue would be correct on some aircraft (& I agree the Toom in your pic above looks to have a blue cover) if they used a yellow bulb - that when energised makes the light show green. Other aircraft with green coloured covers would use a clear bulb. Or so I was told....!! (I believe that was when I was flying Bulldogs with the University Air Squadron & I was surprised to see they had blue starboard nav lights when shut down!) And then there are Harriers - remember the discussions in the thread of your lovely build of the Airfix kit?! Sorry to cause confusion! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, keefr22 said: And then there are Harriers - remember the discussions in the thread of your lovely build of the Airfix kit?! I went back to check the Harrier ref pics too, and that discussion came to mind right away - so, excluding Harriers , I think it's all clear now Ciao Edited October 17, 2017 by giemme 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) On 16/10/2017 at 1:02 PM, giemme said: Ailerons: I decided I'll glue them in before starting the painting stage. Good decision me thinks. One thought just to unnecessarily complicate matters............aileron deflection is not always equal up and down The down going aileron increases lift but at the same time it increases induced drag with the consequence of adverse aileron yaw (which is why a certain amount of rudder is needed to maintain balanced flight in the turn in many aircraft - altho' thankfully not in fast jets such as the jaguar). To minimise adverse yaw as much as practicable it is not uncommon for the up going aileron to have more deflection (increasing profile drag) than the corresponding down going aileron on the opposite wing (note: other mechanisms for combating adverse yaw are available......) Of course I have absolutely no idea if your Macchi included such a mechanism. And I can't really imagine that any differential would be noriceable in 1/48 scale. But I didn't let such trivial matters prevent me from mentioning it........... After all, any man that would go to such lengths to get the wing tip lights to look right would surely want his aileron deflection to be accurate Edited October 17, 2017 by Fritag 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fritag said: To minimise adverse yaw as much as practicable it is not uncommon for the up going aileron to have more deflection (increasing profile drag) than the corresponding down going aileron on the opposite wing (note: other mechanisms for combating adverse yaw are available......) Very good point!!! I have no idea if this is the case of the Macchis, but it may well be, considering the different dimentions of the ailerons and the wings themselves to compensate the engine torque. The wings and ailerons are coupling very well now. Just the sall air intake made me laugh, remembering an old scetch by two great italian comedians (Raimopndo Vianello and Ugo Tognazzi) describing how to get a toothpick from a tree!!! Edited October 17, 2017 by massimo2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Fritag said: After all, any man that would go to such lengths to get the wing tip lights to look right would surely want his aileron deflection to be accurate Of course! The only probem being that my kowledge about flight is down to a point where I need to think twice to have the ailerons deflected according to the control stick position (all to the left, in this case) So I will follow your educated advice and deflect starboard aileron a few degrees less than port one (which is probably just as good, because it should have a better fit, that way ) Pot to kettle, over 52 minutes ago, massimo said: Just the sall air intake made me laugh, remembering an old scetch by two great italian comedians (Raimopndo Vianello and Ugo Tognazzi) describing how to get a toothpick from a tree!!! Thanks Massimo I don't remember that one, gonna have to look it up on youtube Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Or did they have a control lock to prevent aileron deflection anyway... Keith. Just adding some confusion. Again....!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, keefr22 said: Or did they have a control lock to prevent aileron deflection anyway... Keith. Just adding some confusion. Again....!! Aaaaargh!!! But no, I'm pretty sure I saw some wartime pics of parked C205 with deflected ailerons - but now I'm gonna have to go check again .... Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Sorry Giorgio!! But you could always say the pilot forgot to fit it - and then had to make a suitable contribution to the squadron beer fund...!! K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 The international standard for nav lights is red and green. Sometimes an old green lens can look blue. I'm pretty sure that coloured bulbs are fairly recent, and that WWII era would have had clear bulbs with tinted plastic covers. I do stand to be corrected however! Ian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winenut Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Looking great Giorgio. Love the work on the lights and also the tiny air intake. The process you are using (which I am keen to give a go) might actually be spelt "plunging" or "plunge" moulding. My neighbour has shown me how to do it when forming canopies for his radio Controlled scale aircraft. Keep up the beautiful detailed work Cheers Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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