1/72 - Gloster Meteor Mk.4 "World Speed Record" by Special Hobby - released

[Dave Swindell]

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Without any evidence that can be dated all you can say is it existed in this form at some point.

Dating evidence to before or after the record flight may make make it possible to say on the balance of probability what the airframe looked like.

Evidence dated to the time of the record flight could prove conclusively what it looked like. 

Anything else is speculation to some degree or other.

 

[Work In Progress]

Hey, if you want to build a model of a short-wing all-yellow EE445 on no basis other than that other people have built models like that, that's fine by me. I've got a number of highly speculative models myself, some which I know to be fictional.

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Work In Progress

[Graham Boak]

According to Edward Shacklady (The Gloster Meteor, Macdonald 1962) the need for the clipped wing was not realised until the autumn of 1946, after 100 Mk.4s had been produced.  The first example converted was the 9th production aircraft EE525 but he does not give a date for this.  The saying "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is a good rule at times, but speculation does require more justification than just that saying.

 

Shacklady does describe the aircraft as having been painted "bright yellow overall".  There is a different photo to the ones above, but showing much the same effect.  However, this one also appears to show a much lighter stripe on top of the engine nacelle, not visible in the other views.  I suspect this is simply light reflection, and to me this casts doubt on whether this is what we are seeing anyway.  As a minor point, note that the windscreen frame has remained in a dark colour rather than the yellow of the model art.

[Dave Swindell]

Au contrare, I'd prefer to establish it's exact configuration during the record flight and model it accordingly. 

l don't have an whifs in my collection (discounting a few models of paper projects or prototypes that were never complted), each to his own.

Your earlier posts seemed to me to be leaning heavily towards suggesting that on the basis of the photos of the above and not having seen any conclusive evidence of the actual configuration on the day, it was unlikely that either yellow outer wings or shorter outer wings were used on the record run.

My opinion is that the above does not justify this position (or the opposite which I get the feeling you think I have).

 

[viscount806x]

47 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

According to Edward Shacklady (The Gloster Meteor, Macdonald 1962) the need for the clipped wing was not realised until the autumn of 1946, after 100 Mk.4s had been produced.  The first example converted was the 9th production aircraft EE525 but he does not give a date for this.  The saying "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is a good rule at times, but speculation does require more justification than just that saying.

 

Shacklady does describe the aircraft as having been painted "bright yellow overall".  There is a different photo to the ones above, but showing much the same effect.  However, this one also appears to show a much lighter stripe on top of the engine nacelle, not visible in the other views.  I suspect this is simply light reflection, and to me this casts doubt on whether this is what we are seeing anyway.  As a minor point, note that the windscreen frame has remained in a dark colour rather than the yellow of the model art.

I combed 'Shacklady' myself last night along with all my other Meteor stuff but have been unable to find much in the way of photographic evidence except for the few same images which seem to be repeated, all in B&W regrettably. There was one more monochrome image which came up on a Google search which I hadn't seen previously and which shows the a/c with elevators fully 'up' and to my eye this might indicate that the tailplane was also HSS/metal finished too. The sun is shining and mere shadows wouldn't fully explain the tonal differences. I agree that there is certainly a case for HSS/metal outer wings, something which I hadn't even thought of previously. The lack of colour photos of this airframe is certainly a bit odd though. There must be people still alive who had personal contact with EE455 though so maybe one day we might get he definitive answer. Shame the colour photo below is without the wings but it does show the canopy framing painted yellow.

 

 

 

It would be really nice to sort out this conundrum wouldn't it?

Nige B

 

 

[stevehnz]

If I can manage to copy & paste, this page https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/7-november-1945/ has a Pathe news clip that to my eye plainly shows full span wings, even though the article refers to reduced span wings.

Steve.

[Graham Boak]

I'm quite convinced that the aircraft had standard wings (and I don't think that I expressed any opinion on that aspect before).  The F Mk.4 wings were shortened for strength reasons, in 1946.  Clipping the wings in 1945 is something that would have been mentioned as part of the trial preparations.  There is an additional comment in Shacklady.  After talking about the 1946 record runs, he says that EE549 (the record taker) was displayed at the Paris Air Show in November 1946 alongside a standard F.4 "which had the new clipped wing".  Switching to Derek N James' Putnam "Gloster Aircraft since 1917"  the need for the new wing was discovered after the entry into service the the F.4 "Rather than delay delivery to the RAF by redesigning the wing to Specification F.11/46, the span was reduced..."  This puts even the birth of the new wing into 1946, and the three aircraft on the 1946 record attempt had "this new wing".

 

I'm not quite so sure about the colour of the wings.  The interpretation of the photos was quite convincing - if not indisputable - but equally a similar interpretation of the photo in Shacklady would have a white(?) strip down the top of the cowling.  It's a shame perhaps that Waterton wasn't on the earlier run, as he might have said something in his biography.

[Work In Progress]

A skim through the Flight International archive for 1945 and 1946 quite clearly shows that the short span Meteor wing was a 1946 creation and did not exist at the time of the 1945 record effort.

 

Shacklady is not quite right, however, if he says that the need for the clipped wing was not *realised* until the autumn of 1946. Flight reported in the 1 August 1946 issue "It has lately been announced that the Meteor IV wing has been reduced in span to increase the rate of roll." (pages 115-116). So the decision to introduce the clipped wing had already been made and announced in the summer, no later than July.

 

Furthermore there is a photo on page 518, November 15, 1945 issue showing a full-span Meteor captioned "The record aircraft is seen above on one of its runs". Sadly the tonal quality of the monochrome picture is basically a silhouette and offers no help on the wing colour. Page 520, same issue, shows Britannia, the camouflaged 1945 record aeroplane, clearly as full span.

 

The October 25th 1945 issue, page 444, has a large cut-away drawing of "The Mark IV Record Type", with a technical description and details of the wing span. Full span wings, of course.

The August 15th issue of Flight added (I quote verbatim from page166):

It has been asked why the new "clipped-wing" developed for the Meteor and illustrated in Flight of August 1st is not being used on the High-Speed machines. The explanation is that while the prototype clipped-wing Meteor has done a considerable amount of development flying it was thought desirable to retain the "known quantity" of the standard wing. In any case, it is doubtful if the short-span wing would be favoured, having been developed primarily to improve lateral control. the new wing may even detract slightly from maximum speed.

 

That's the 1946 machines, so self-evidently there can be no question of the 1945 machines having clipped wings during their record attempts. Both 1946 articles quoted above are based on direct interviews between Flight journalists and Carter, the Gloster chief designer.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Work In Progress

[Graham Boak]

It's probably fair to point out that "to improve lateral control", whilst possibly true enough, avoids mentioning that the bigger wing was placing too much stress on the inner wing - much as the Spitfire before it.  Statements made to the press at the time do have to be taken with certain amount of caution.  As ever.

[Work In Progress]

Oh, granted, in terms of the bending stresses. It really did do a lot for the aeroplane in roll, though. However, we digress: the main point for modelling purposes is that whatever it did, it didn't do it during 1945.

Now, if only we can bottom out the colours question...

[KevinK]

I'm well aware that without some documentary evidence, we can't be sure what the colour was 'on the day', so please just take this as a thought exercise.

 

If I had been a 1945 Gloster engineer asked to prepare an aircraft for a world airspeed record attempt, I would be looking to reduce (i) friction/parasite drag and (ii) lift-induced drag (via reduced weight), as much as possible. Amongst other things, I would want to smooth and fill the bare metal aerosurfaces to retain laminar flow as far along the chord as possible, then apply the thinnest coat of clear dope (no pigment, to keep the weight down) to seal the filled areas. Then wax polish.

 

Think the Streak Eagle 30+ years later.

 

If I was told 'we can't send an aircraft out looking like that', I would choose a colour to give coverage with the minimum of mass - the obvious one being silver dope applied only to the filled areas. If I had to choose a colour, yellow would be dead last from the weight point of view: those who've painted anything yellow know just how many more coats it takes to get full-depth coverage, compared with any other colour.

 

On the other hand, if I were later repainting it for exhibition at Le Bourget, yellow would be a great choice for visual effect.

 

Kevin

[Work In Progress]

Extending the same thought experiment: if I were thinking like that about yellow paint, why did I go to the trouble of painting the rest of the aeroplane yellow for the speed record attempt? There is no dispute at all about the fuselage, inner wing sections, fin, rudder and nacelle sections being yellow for those flights.

 

And for that matter, if I thought the colour of paint might affect the result, why did I choose to leave the other aircraft in its standard camouflage colours (albeit polished up to a gloss)?

It was the camouflaged aircraft, Britannia, which went faster in 1945, after all, breaking the yellow aeroplane's record a couple of hours later.

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Work In Progress

[Work In Progress]

Incidentally here's some excellent newsreel showing the yellow aeroplane during the record attempts, with the full span wings, and the different outer wing colour evident at 0:39 , but I can't draw any firm conclusions about the tailplane.

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks muchly w.i.p, 

 

Well I'm convinced. Bright silver long span outer wings, hori stabs and fin bullet. The rest including inside u/c doors, wheel struts and canopy frame - yellow. 

I've taken some photographs at various points from the above newsreel and enlarged them. That's all the evidence I need. 

 

Now I just have to wait until this kit is released and add it to the long build queue! 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[viscount806x]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Thanks muchly w.i.p, 

 

Well I'm convinced. Bright silver long span outer wings, hori stabs and fin bullet. The rest including inside u/c doors, wheel struts and canopy frame - yellow. 

I've taken some photographs at various points from the above newsreel and enlarged them. That's all the evidence I need. 

 

Now I just have to wait until this kit is released and add it to the long build queue! 

 

Cheers.. Dave

Dave, any chance you could share those enhanced stills with us please?

Cheers, Nige B

[Work In Progress]

Yes, I think I'm there with you. The tailplane bullet fairing, no doubt about it, 0:17 and 0:37. Logically, if that, then the rest of the horizontal tailplane is likely though I'm currently personally assessing that as "on the balance of probabilities" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt".  And if the horizonat tailplane, then probably the elevators.

 

I'm still more inclined towards bare metal than silver or aluminium paint for the affected parts of the aeroplane but we're not going to settle that definitively without additional evidence.

 

The implication of all of that is that I need to buy YET ANOTHER Meteor kit so I can do the SH one in yellow/NMF, and re-purpose the Novo one into 'Britannia' in glossy camo. And to think that only last week it was all looking so simple, a quick blow-over with an aerosol can...

 

 

[Homebee]

- ref.72361  - schemes: 

http://www.specialhobby.net/2017/04/sh72361-gloster-meteor-world-speed.html

http://www.specialhobby.net/2017/03/sh72361-gloster-meteor-vybrane-kamuflaze.html

 

 

    

 

     

 

V.P.
 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Homebee

[MVW]

Hello,

when looking in the video at 1:59 you can see that the whole (structural) horizontal tailplane unit incl. bullet is silver / bare metal / polished. The part of the horizontal tailplane bridging the gap in the vertical tailplane has a darker hue than the rest of the (yellow) vertical tailplane.

I assume for both the outer wings and the horizontal tailplane that the paint demarcation is following their structural joints.

 

Thanks to all for this intresting thread, I like that very much.

 

Regards,

 

Martin

[Work In Progress]

Yes, it is clear from the film that the tailplane bullet fairing is not yellow so that needs to be silver / NMF / aluminium paint / whatever in the kit instructions regardless of the actual tailplane option

[Rabbit Leader]

Shoot - seeing all those decal options has possibly tempted me to add at least one more!! 

 

Can anyone share some light on the history of the Meteor depicted as Camo scheme D (with the additionally framed canopy).

I see 'Britannia' decals included as well so a duel build with 'Yellow Peril' looks likely to be a popular choice. 

 

How many of us have built, attempted or even dreamt about making a long winged Mk.IV?? Finally the wait is (almost) over. 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[Graham Boak]

EE549 was Donaldson's 1946 record breaker at 616 mph.  Waterton's EE550 had a metal canopy with circular "portholes", achieving 614 mph.  EE549 went to the Paris Air Show, and to return home Waterton set a new Paris-London record at 618.4 mph. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Graham Boak

[Madoc]

Great finds with those videos there!

 

And they had to be absolutely insane to be doing such high speed runs at those low altitudes.  A single pigeon bridstrike could've been lethal at that speed and lack of height!

[Rabbit Leader]

36 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

EE549 was Donaldson's 1946 record breaker at 616 mph.  Waterton's EE550 had a metal canopy with circular "portholes", achieving 614 mph.  EE549 went to the Paris Air Show, and to return home Waterton set a new Paris-London record at 618.4 mph. 

 

Thanks for the quick and informative reply Graham.

When I get the chance I'll dig out all my Meteor books and take another look at these special high speed aircraft.

I've tended to concentate on normal 'squadon service' aircraft, however this thread and upcoming kit has thankfully peaked my interests elsewhere.

 

Cheers.. Dave.

[Rabbit Leader]

12 hours ago, viscount806x said:

Dave, any chance you could share those enhanced stills with us please?

Cheers, Nige B

 

Nige,

These aren't the best video photo grabs, however viewing these on a trusty ipad and expanding them a few times may allow you to see what I'm pretty sure I'm seeing.

Anyway - horses for courses, I'm depicting mine with silver wings, hori stabs and fin bullet. Others may have differing opinions, but that's what I see.  

 

Cheers.. Dave

 

[71chally]

Nice work there Dave, and inclined to agree with your findings.

My guess is that it was nothing more than swapping with factory components that were in natural metal.

Another thing noticeable EE455 also had a what appears to be metal skining on the lower half of the sliding canopy section, giving a raised sill effect.

 

I take it EE455 was in all over yellow at some stage?

 

The reasoning for the 'metal' canopy seen on EE459 and '550 and was that it was thought that frictional heat at high speed would deform a plastic canopy.

Other measures taken for preparations of their flights was the smoothing of skin joints, rivet heads and paint finish, and the removal of intake mesh screens.

 

 

One thing I find is that there is so little solid information on early Meteors in general, and considering their status, the record breaking Meteors in particular.

It's good to see that special Hobby appear to have researched the subject quite well.