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RAF recce Jaguar questions


ReccePhreak

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I recently picked up an Airfix 1/48 Jaguar GR3A/ES (Kit 07104) for a great price, as there were no decals. I have to decide which aftermarket decal set(s) to get. I read somewhere that the only Jaguar units to regularly use the recce pod were 2 Sqn & 41 Sqn, is that true? I want to make the kit as either a Gulf War bird that flew recce missions, and as such would have "camera" mission markings on the nose; or make it as one of the Jaguars that I downloaded film from, when I was stationed at Zweibrücken AB Germany (1980-1985). I was a Photo-Sensor Technician in the 26th Tac Recon Wing, and one of our jobs was to download the film from transient NATO recce aircraft (Cross Service Maintenance). A VERY interesting job on the Jaguar, lying on my back on the tarmac, so I could rotate the camera access door and download the film magazine. :blink:

 

I am assuming that the Gulf War Jaguar would probably have been a GR3, while the NATO Jaguar in the '80-'85 time frame would probably have been a GR1, is that a correct assumption?

 

Any suggestions as to mission load carried for either option, especially ECM pods and missiles? I see some decal options for the Gulf War jet at Hannants, but can't tell if there is anything for an 80s jet in NATO. I already have a Neomega cockpit set for it, but wonder if I need to get any aftermarket stores to replace the kit parts? I may attempt to scratch-build a ladder for it, based on the posts I have read.

 

I have already seen the different WIPs and downloaded the pics & notes, to print out when I start on my model.

 

Larry, in Florida

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Larry

 

Answers to a couple of your questions:

 

Yes - Numbers 2 and 41 Squadrons were the RAF's dedicated Jaguar reconnaissance squadrons: 2 Squadron was based in Germany and operated the type between 1976 and 1988, 41 Squadron was based in the UK and used the type between 1976 and 1997.

 

No - the Jaguars that served in the Gulf during Operation Granby/Desert Storm were still the GR Mk.1A model.

 

During the Gulf War the RAF Jaguar detachment operated two aircraft in the reconnaissance role from about 11 February 1991 as a pair; one aircraft carried a Vinten LOROP (Long Range oblique photography) pod whilst the second carried the more familiar BAe Pod carrying an F126 survey camera.  (Source: RAF Yearbook Special Air War in the Gulf).

 

From the pictures I've been able to find, the aircraft's standard fit appears to have been:

 

Starboard outer: Phimat chaff/flare pod 

Starboard inboard: Drop Tank

Centreline: Reconnaissance Pod

Port inboard: Drop Tank

Port outer: ALQ-101 ECM Pod

Overwing pylons: AIM-9L Sidewinder Missiles

 

Xtradecal's sheet X012-48 X48012 may give you a couple of markings options.

 

Hope this helps you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Richard E said:

Larry

 

Answers to a couple of your questions:

 

Yes - Numbers 2 and 41 Squadrons were the RAF's dedicated Jaguar reconnaissance squadrons: 2 Squadron was based in Germany and operated the type between 1976 and 1988, 41 Squadron was based in the UK and used the type between 1976 and 1997.

 

No - the Jaguars that served in the Gulf during Operation Granby/Desert Storm were still the GR Mk.1A model.

 

During the Gulf War the RAF Jaguar detachment operated two aircraft in the reconnaissance role from about 11 February 1991 as a pair; one aircraft carried a Vinten LOROP (Long Range oblique photography) pod whilst the second carried the more familiar BAe Pod carrying an F126 survey camera.  (Source: RAF Yearbook Special Air War in the Gulf).

 

From the pictures I've been able to find, the aircraft's standard fit appears to have been:

 

Starboard outer: Phimat chaff/flare pod 

Starboard inboard: Drop Tank

Centreline: Reconnaissance Pod

Port inboard: Drop Tank

Port outer: ALQ-101 ECM Pod

Overwing pylons: AIM-9L Sidewinder Missiles

 

Xtradecal's sheet X012-48 X48012 may give you a couple of markings options.

 

Hope this helps you.

 

 

Thanks Richard, for the very informative reply.

 

So, it must have been a 2 Sqn jet that I downloaded while at Zweibrücken AB, Germany.

 

As far as a Gulf War bird, I saw the Xtradecals sheet, but I also saw two interesting markings on 2 different Kits World decals:

 

Kitsworld 1/48 'Jaguars' - KW148050 Operation Granby

Jaguar GR1A XZ358 W - 54 Squadron 'Diplomatic Service' Al-Muharraq, Saudi Arabia - 1991

Kitsworld 1/48 'Jaguars' - KW148051 Operation Granby

Jaguar GR1A XZ106 O - 54 Squadron 'Britannia' Al-Muharraq, Saudi Arabia - 1991 

 

I can't really justify buying those sheets for only one set of markings, maybe I will put a Wanted post up, looking for one of the markings.

When you mention the BAe Pod carrying an F126 survey camera, is that the recce pod that is in the Airfix kit? I am sure nobody does an aftermarket Vinten LOROP pod, but I would LOVE to get a couple of them. At least my kit has all the other underwing & overwing stores that I will need. I noticed that other than decals, the only aftermarket stuff for the Airfix Jaguar is an old Airwaves PE set, some Eduard canopy masks, Mastercasters weighted wheels, a Pavla Mk.9B ejection set & SAC white metal landing gear. About the only thing I MIGHT get is the canopy masks.

 

Larry

23 minutes ago, Finn said:

Here is is inspiration for you Larry:

 

Jari

Cool picture, Jari! :thumbsup:

 

Larry

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3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

The over wing pylons weren't used in the RAF until Operation Granby in 1990/91 .

 

Indeed. In the 80's one AIM-9G was carried on an outboard wing pylon, with a PHIMAT or AN/ALQ-101 on the other side.

 

HTH,

 

Andre

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1 hour ago, tempestfan said:

I recommend the Aeroguide #2 if you stick with the early 80s bird, it is one of the most easily obtainable titles in the series, and it will give you lots of Detail shots, including a couple of the recce pod.

Thanks for that info. Fortunately I have a PDF copy of that book.

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2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The RAF Jaguars in the 1980s didn't carry the overwing Sidewinder pylons.  I don 't know when they were introduced, but it was well after the export Jaguar International.

 

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

The over wing pylons weren't used in the RAF until Operation Granby in 1990/91 .  

 

1 hour ago, Hook said:

 

Indeed. In the 80's one AIM-9G was carried on an outboard wing pylon, with a PHIMAT or AN/ALQ-101 on the other side.

 

HTH,

 

Andre

Thanks all, for that info. I don't remember the planes I downloaded having Sidewinders over the wings.

But since there don't appear to be any aftermarket decals for a 2 Sqn bird, i may have to stick with a Desert Storm/Operation Granby one.

 

Edited by ReccePhreak
correct Squadron # error
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Hi Recce Phreak

What a small world! Back in 1985-89 I was based at RAF Gutersloh, in Germany and I used to come down to Zweibrucken for recce cross servicing training for your RF 4Cs. we also serviced Belgian Mirages at Florennes and Dutch F16s at Volkel, as well as the 2 Sqn Jags of course. Prior to that I spent four years on 41 Sqn and Hook is correct, the jags never carried Sidewinders until the Gulf War. The usual load out was the Recce Pod on the centreline with drop tanks on the inboard pylons. The Phimat and ECM Pods were carried on the outboard pylons but not always. The only weapons carried back then were freefall bombs - 500lbs or 1000lbs or practice bombs carried in the Cluster Bomb Light Stores (CBLS).

 

Mick

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36 minutes ago, ReccePhreak said:

 

But since there don't appear to be any aftermarket decals for a 4 Sqn bird, i may have to stick with a Desert Storm/Operation Granby one.

 

 2, probably ? It may (may !) be possible to rob the squadron insignia from a Tornado sheet. Or handpaint it...

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1 hour ago, tempestfan said:

 2, probably ? It may (may !) be possible to rob the squadron insignia from a Tornado sheet. Or handpaint it...

Sorry, I did mean to say 2 Sqn. :oops:

I have an Xtradecal Hunter sheet that has the 2 Sqn flashes, but not the center design. That might be hard to hand paint. :blink:

9_32.jpg

I know the drawing is of a Jaguar T.2, but it shows the 2 Sqn emblem nicely.

I guess i will keep searching, to see if I can find a decal sheet (Tornado?) that has suitable emblems.

 

I just found a Tornado sheet that has the 2 Sqn flashes I need. It's Model Alliance sheet ML48104, and the markings are for  either ZA370 or ZA592.

ML48104_1.jpg

Hopefully, some kind sould can spare one set of those flashes? :pray:

 

Larry

Edited by ReccePhreak
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On 2/23/2017 at 7:24 AM, MickE said:

Hi Recce Phreak

What a small world! Back in 1985-89 I was based at RAF Gutersloh, in Germany and I used to come down to Zweibrucken for recce cross servicing training for your RF 4Cs. we also serviced Belgian Mirages at Florennes and Dutch F16s at Volkel, as well as the 2 Sqn Jags of course. Prior to that I spent four years on 41 Sqn and Hook is correct, the jags never carried Sidewinders until the Gulf War. The usual load out was the Recce Pod on the centreline with drop tanks on the inboard pylons. The Phimat and ECM Pods were carried on the outboard pylons but not always. The only weapons carried back then were freefall bombs - 500lbs or 1000lbs or practice bombs carried in the Cluster Bomb Light Stores (CBLS).

 

Mick

Hi Mick,

 

Yes, a small world indeed. I was at Zweibrücken from 74-77, and again from 80-85. Absolutely LOVED those assignments!

I did Cross Service work on Jaguars, Drakens, Mirage IIRs & RF-104Gs. I still remember coming out to a Luftwaffe RF-104G and asking the pilot (Still in the cockpit) if he needed his cameras downloaded. He chuckled, held up his personal Nikon camera, and said "Not unless you want to download this." :rofl:

 

Larry

Edited by ReccePhreak
correction
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Hi Larry.

 

I think youll find that the Tornado flashes are a bit on the large side for a Jag, Phantom ones are anyway. However, a cut and shut of the Phantom flashes might work out now I have them in front of me.

Alternatively there are the Kitty Hawk T2/T4 and the ESCI Jag (4034 boxing) kits that included the flashes, the ESCI ones look the better of those, but are old and hard to find, yet maybe worth asking about as you might also get the correct serial number bits (XZ101) and the three ID letters in their triangles ("S" in the case of that sheet).

I really struggled to find anything for the 2 sqn Jags other than the ESCI sheet, so Im also all ears re any other options as a back up plan if nothing else.

 

If these are any interest - I have some Revell Phantom flashes spare and a couple of "Ts" in their triangles, but all are that little bit too large compared to the ESCI ones at least, also spare are the Kitty Hawk decals, but theyre a bit weird and the "33" isnt much use to you I fear - Sorry, Im using the ESCI ones myself if they dont explode on contact with water!

 

P1110655%20Large.jpg

 

 

For stencil decals, theres Xtradecal X48-057 which includes stencils for a Hawk, Harrier (GR.7/9 I think) and Tornado F3, or theres Model Alliance MA-48122 thats a Jag s[ecific sheet with nice options and full stencils too.

Or if you can get a late Revell Jag sheet, they look great and cover absolutely everything, including weapons very well too.

 

Hope thats maybe of some help at least.

 

Rob

 

Edited by RMP2
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On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, ReccePhreak said:

Yes, a small world indeed. I was at Zweibrücken from 74-79, and again from 80-85. Absolutely LOVED those assignments!

I did Cross Service work on Jaguars, Drakens, Mirage IIRs & RF-104Gs. I still remember coming out to a Luftwaffe RF-104G and asking the pilot (Still in the cockpit) if he needed his cameras downloaded. He chuckled, held up his personal Nikon camera, and said "Not unless you want to download this."

 

So you never got to service our Harriers then? I also used to love this work. Normally I was employed in the Radar/Camera Bay but got myself on the Ample Gain team. Worked out quite well as my exercises only lasted two or three days on camp as opposed to two weeks in the field with the Harrier, Puma and Chinook squadrons.

Zweibrucken held the Ample Gain meet in 1986, a good time was had by all. Some of the brits from Laarbruch ended up going back dressed as USAF as they had swopped all their uniform. :)

Mick

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2 minutes ago, MickE said:

 

So you never got to service our Harriers then? I also used to love this work. Normally I was employed in the Radar/Camera Bay but got myself on the Ample Gain team. Worked out quite well as my exercises only lasted two or three days on camp as opposed to two weeks in the field with the Harrier, Puma and Chinook squadrons.

Zweibrucken held the Ample Gain meet in 1986, a good time was had by all. Some of the brits from Laarbruch ended up going back dressed as USAF as they had swopped all their uniform. :)

Mick

Unfortunately, no. I did see a lot of Harriers come in to the Transient ramp, but never was tasked to download them. Since I was mainly in shop for most of my assignment, I didn't get to participate in Ample Gain much.

All told, Zweibrücken was my favorite PCS assigment (Permanent Change of Station), next to Thailand.

 

Larry

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