neillbill Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Last Months Aeroplane had a couple of dark pictures of Canberras with what looked like a Red Beard semi submerged in the bomb bay. Like to add this to my RAF bombers line up. Anyone got a better picture or drawing of the Red Beard mated to the Canberra? Thanks Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillbill Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 OK Blue Silk Shackleton and Green Satin Vulcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) I fold! You can't beat a hand like that. Edited February 17, 2017 by Space Ranger Additional comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 17 hours ago, billneill said: Last Months Aeroplane had a couple of dark pictures of Canberras with what looked like a Red Beard semi submerged in the bomb bay. Like to add this to my RAF bombers line up. Anyone got a better picture or drawing of the Red Beard mated to the Canberra? Thanks Bill Is this what you are looking for Bill? John 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Excellent pic John, is that how it was carried in flight, semi recessed? Some rough old paint work on that Canberra! Edited February 18, 2017 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 40 minutes ago, 71chally said: Excellent pic John, is that how it was carried in flight, semi recessed? Some rough old paint work on that Canberra! Thanks James the paint is very scruffy, it's just a temporary finnish for the trials, I've not seen any photos of her in flight, but from what I know this is how the installation was planned to be, They were testing airflow over the shape by releasing dye into the airflow, so I guess she did fly with it? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillbill Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks Canberra kid that will do nicely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenton guy Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It seems to me that I have seen photos of an arrangement for the internal carriage of Red Beard on Canberras. A rather complicated frame which was loaded with the bomb and which included a large ( relative to the bomb ) perforated airstream deflector which was needed allow clean separation of the weapon. Might have been in "Aeroplane". My impression was that this was the standard fit for the nuclear armed Canberra marks. I have nuclear armed F-101A and a similarly armed CF-104 in the collection. I have plans to add such a Canberra with an open weapons bay but have been put off by the complexity of the carriage arrangement. Wonder if the recessed external carriage was ever standard? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Two more Canberra bucket of instant sunshine photo's the first is what I think Trenton guy was referring to? The second is another weapon, which one I don't remember, but I'm sure some one will recognise it, Not a very practical way of loading though! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 The second picture is of a Red Beard on its loading trolley. The first one is of the American Mk7 Thor, which was supplied for the Germany based Canberras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 On 18/02/2017 at 11:55 AM, canberra kid said: John Is that a Mock up for trial bay fit ? You wouldn't want to do that with a real one and seen by as few as possible on a "need to know" basis as it was Top Secret. The fins don't look very aerodynamic and squared off end of the body looks odd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 29 minutes ago, 71chally said: The second picture is of a Red Beard on its loading trolley. The first one is of the American Mk7 Thor, which was supplied for the Germany based Canberras. Thanks James, so the "Thor" would have been for the B.(I)6 and 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, bzn20 said: Is that a Mock up for trial bay fit ? You wouldn't want to do that with a real one and seen by as few as possible on a "need to know" basis as it was Top Secret. The fins don't look very aerodynamic and squared off end of the body looks odd. I don't know for sure what the trial was, but the shape was just an aerodynamic test piece to see how the airflow worked around the installation. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, canberra kid said: Thanks James, so the "Thor" would have been for the B.(I)6 and 8 That's my understanding John, under the Project E and SACEUR agreements. Both the weapons look standard, ie not especially modified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 1 minute ago, 71chally said: That's my understanding John, under the Project E and SACEUR agreements. Both the weapons look standard, ie not especially modified. So the next question James, is where do I get one in 1/48? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Belcher Bits has them in 1/48: http://www.belcherbits.com/lines/148conv/bb22.htm also the Revell F-84G comes with a Mk-7. Jari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) I can't link on my phone, but if you Google 'Ultracast tactical nuclear weapon' you should find a Mk7 and Red Beard pair. Edit, which is the same product as in Finns post above. Edited April 2, 2017 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 2 hours ago, canberra kid said: Two more Canberra bucket of instant sunshine photo's the first is what I think Trenton guy was referring to? The second is another weapon, which one I don't remember, but I'm sure some one will recognise it, Not a very practical way of loading though! John The first picture is a US weapon the second the Red beard on a "J" type Bomb trolley. The third picture is interesting as there were always problems with the limited bomb bay ground clearance on Canberras when loading stores, and several methods were used to gain clearance, this looks like one of these trials, raising the tail to get the stores in underneath. The US Mk 7 bomb was certainly semi recessed on Canberra. I quote from the book " A Bucket of Sunshine: Life on a Cold War Canberra Squadron" by Mike Brooke (a good read by the way!) "The Mk7 was 15ft long and 2.5ft around. It looked ‘chubby’ and weighed in at 1,650lb. It was just a little bit too fat to fit in the Canberra with the original bomb doors closed so these had been modified to allow them to fit around our charge. The bomb bay length was sufficient for the Mk7 to fit neatly. However, because the final attack speed was nearly 100kts above the normal limiting speed for the bomb doors to be open, a special baffle plate was fitted to overcome this limitation. The Red Beard carrier also featured baffle plates (probably for the same bomb door reason as the Mk 7) but this bomb was slightly smaller in diameter and may have been able to be carried internally, The only image I have seen is the one of the trial installation which does not prove anything as the trial may have been a failure! Has anyone seen photos or drawings of the normal Canberra Red Beard installation? Selwyn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Thanks Selwyn, the doors were modified but it was the inside skin that changed with an area on the skin being removed to acomadate the fins. This allowed the doors to fully close around the weapon. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) On 4/1/2017 at 9:46 PM, 71chally said: I can't link on my phone, but if you Google 'Ultracast tactical nuclear weapon' you should find a Mk7 and Red Beard pair. Edit, which is the same product as in Finns post above. Thanks James and Finn, I will try to track one down. John Edited April 3, 2017 by canberra kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Don't know if this is useful but.... http://rafbarnham-nss.weebly.com/red-beard.html Trevor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Max Headroom said: Don't know if this is useful but.... http://rafbarnham-nss.weebly.com/red-beard.html Trevor Nice photo! Thanks for the link. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 4 hours ago, canberra kid said: Thanks Selwyn, the doors were modified but it was the inside skin that changed with an area on the skin being removed to acomadate the fins. This allowed the doors to fully close around the weapon. John for which weapon, or both? Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 In the photo it's Red Beard Selwyn. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 5 hours ago, canberra kid said: In the photo it's Red Beard Selwyn. John No you misunderstand, the US bomb had the doors closed around it as stated in the quote, the Red Beard was slimmer than the US Mk 7 but needed to be semi recessed? , At first instance it does not ring true to me. So the question is still were the doors modified for the US MK 7 bomb installation to enable the doors to close, or were they modified for the Red Beard to enable the doors to close? you don't say in your post. Pictures of a trial installation showing a semi recessed bomb do not tell me that this is definitively how the Red Beard was carried on Canberra! Lots of sources state the problems with airflow in the bomb bay with both the US and UK weapon, it stands to reason they tried different methods of mounting with or without bomb doors to work the problem. What the final solution was is the mystery! Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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