Grandslam Lancaster

[PhantomBigStu]

I have an Airfix lancaster in the stash, and may be in a position to acquire parts to do a Grandslam version, I have already amongt my 4 corgi diecast lancasters a grandslam version, and obviusly would like to build something slightly different if possible, I know nothing about the different a/c that carried GS and indead what is out there in therms of decals 

 

This is the example I have

 

[Jonny]

Googling "617 grand slam Lancaster"  might be helpful!

 

Briefly, 617 was the only squadron to carry the bomb on operations.  The Lancasters adapted to carry it carried "YZ" squadron codes and most were in light eart / light green / LAG colours, as per your Cogi model.   Front and mid upper turrets were removed and I think rear turrets carried only one gun - these were the obvious signs of attempts to save airframe weight, others being removal of armour plating and the Navigator's seat was, I believe, replaced by a wickerwork alternative.  The bombsight was the SABS, not the usual Mk. 14.

 

I've seen three Grand Slams in museums, nanely RAFM, Hendon, the BBMF visitor centre and a warhead only at YAM Elvington.  There's one at Brooklabds and I believe one in Sheffield, also another I think in Scotland.

 

A fascinating weapon.

 

I hope this helps ...

 

Jonny

 

[Ossington 2]

If you fancy a different colour scheme, here's the one I plan on doing in 1/32:

Note that these late models were built without the windows, i.e. don't just paint them over but missing entirely, with a smooth surface.

[Graham Boak]

I don't have it to hand at the moment (nor time to look I'm afraid), but there is an article on these aircraft in the magazine Model Aircraft Monthly which states that the well-known scheme was actually recorded postwar, and was that used during postwar trials.  The article did cover the schemes used on operations which from memory (beware!) was the conventional Bomber Command tops.  Better find it before saying more!

 

PS Sorry, I've been unable to find the article in question.  Perhaps it was in another magazine?  However, I'll stress that there's no doubt that the more unusual scheme was carried,  just when.  Although there may have been some doubt about the underside (a little memory tickled there)

 

PPS it's going to nag at me now.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Graham Boak
After loft search

[PhantomBigStu]

19 hours ago, Jonny said:

Googling "617 grand slam Lancaster"  might be helpful!

 

Briefly, 617 was the only squadron to carry the bomb on operations.  The Lancasters adapted to carry it carried "YZ" squadron codes and most were in light eart / light green / LAG colours, as per your Cogi model.   Front and mid upper turrets were removed and I think rear turrets carried only one gun - these were the obvious signs of attempts to save airframe weight, others being removal of armour plating and the Navigator's seat was, I believe, replaced by a wickerwork alternative.  The bombsight was the SABS, not the usual Mk. 14.

 

I've seen three Grand Slams in museums, nanely RAFM, Hendon, the BBMF visitor centre and a warhead only at YAM Elvington.  There's one at Brooklabds and I believe one in Sheffield, also another I think in Scotland.

 

A fascinating weapon.

 

I hope this helps ...

 

Jonny

 

 

Cheers, looks like my oppuntiunity seems to have faded, though if it does reappear thanks to your advice found the ones that were painted in the coventional bomber command schene, so I would pick on of those to depict

[brewerjerry]

On 14/02/2017 at 6:01 AM, PhantomBigStu said:

 

 I know nothing about the different a/c that carried GS 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

   Only different a/c that carried the GS, that I recall reading about, was the B-29, the US carried out tests with it

 

https://www.warbirdsforum.com/topic/5224-pictures-of-b-29-with-grand-slam/

 

   cheers

      jerry

Edited February 16, 2017 by brewerjerry
added link

[Mike M]

Am I remembering right when I recall seeing somewhere that these aircraft had four bladed propellers on their outboard engines?

[stever219]

1 hour ago, Mike M said:

Am I remembering right when I recall seeing somewhere that these aircraft had four bladed propellers on their outboard engines?

 

'Fraid not, only ever paddle-bladed three blade units.  Some Coastal Command or SOE-tasked Halifaxes had four-bladed props outboard, and I think I remember reading of some Lincolns having such a combination during early test flying in an attempt to cure excessive vibration arising from the use of three-bladed props.

[woody37]

I learned recently that a munitions plant that was a mile from my house (birchwood in Warrington) filled the GS's with explosives. Totally useless information for the masses, I just had to think out loud 

[Mike M]

I was confusing the Gramd Slam Lancasters with the B.VI which did have four blade props.

[woody37]

2 hours ago, Mike M said:

I was confusing the Gramd Slam Lancasters with the B.VI which did have four blade props.

Now that depends too, there was a mix of props on them, depends which aircraft and when. I've seen photos with both types.

[stever219]

5 hours ago, Mike M said:

I was confusing the Gramd Slam Lancasters with the B.VI which did have four blade props.

 

2 hours ago, woody37 said:

Now that depends too, there was a mix of props on them, depends which aircraft and when. I've seen photos with both types.

 

You learn something new every day: I always thought that the Mk. VIs only had four-bladers.

[Mike Starmer]

The article that Graham recalls is in Scale Models January 1976 by Rupert Moore.  He examined one of the GS carriers in June 1946 and it was then that the special scheme had been applied, the undersurfaces, undercarriage legs and bomb bay were Ocean Grey.  The article has three photographs of YZ-C dropping the first GS in an attack on the Bielefeld bridge in on March 15th 1945.  This aircraft is in standard day bomber scheme with nose and dorsal turrets removed.  But the code letters are Yellow above and below the tailplanes so as to be read correctly by a tail gunner in an aircraft above and in front of the subject machine and below so as to be read by a following aircraft below the subject aircraft..  This is clearly seen in the photographs.  Grand Slam bombs were finished thus:

' The warhead of the Grand Slam, which was made of a special high grade steel, 12 ft 6 ins long and 3 ft. in diameter, appeared to have a translucent blue-black lacquer finish, the highlight having a decidedly blueish hue.All the Grand Slams I saw carried the semi-armour piecing mark consisting of a 1/4 in. white ring followed by a 1 in. vermillion one round the nose.  The monocoque sheet metal tail fairing, with it's offset fins, was painted a slightly glossy pale neutral green green colour, slightly lighter than 'Grey Green' included in the M.A.P. Colour Standards:1944.'

 

Moore does not say exactly when the special scheme was first applied, his magazine cover colour painting implies that the scheme was used during hostilities but reading the article I gain the impression that the scheme was only applied to very few aircraft shortly before the end of hostilities.  Those that did were PD119 YZ-T; PD121 YZ-Z; PD129 YZ-O and PD131 YZ-P.  I found a note elsewhere; Lancaster B.I (Special) to Modification No.1693, serials PB592, PD995-998 and PD112 - 139. 

[Seahawk]

This topic comes up regularly and was fairly exhaustively discussed in this longish thread (no, I couldn't find it using the site search engine either):

 

About 12 posts in I quote much of the relevant bits of Rupert Moore's article from Jan 76 Scale Models.

 

But I think Graham may have been referring to a more recent article (last 2-3 years?) by Paul Lucas in which he offered his take on the controversy.  Or are we both afflicted with False Memory Syndrome?

 

[Graham Boak]

I do remember the Rupert Moore article, but yes I was referring to the more recent one - perhaps not quite that recent but as I can't find it, who knows?

[Seahawk]

2 hours ago, Mike Starmer said:

 

Moore does not say exactly when the special scheme was first applied, his magazine cover colour painting implies that the scheme was used during hostilities but reading the article I gain the impression that the scheme was only applied to very few aircraft shortly before the end of hostilities.  Those that did were PD119 YZ-T; PD121 YZ-Z; PD129 YZ-O and PD131 YZ-P.  I found a note elsewhere; Lancaster B.I (Special) to Modification No.1693, serials PB592, PD995-998 and PD112 - 139. 

 

 

As my post 6 down on page 2 of the thread linked above (come back, post numbering!) explains, Moore's article is woven together from 2 sources, his personal post-war observation of PD119 YZ-Z and a more general briefing on war-time Grand Slam tactics he received from F/L Rawes, who had been PD121's pilot on several Grand Slam missions. It is important to read it very attentively to understand what he does and, maybe as important, does not say. 

 

 To recapitulate a little from the earlier post, from photographic evidence [*] PB996 [C], PD112 (S) and PD113 (T) were in the standard bomber scheme but apparently PD114 and all subsequent aircraft were in the day scheme. Aircraft I have been able to confirm in day camo are PD114 (B ), PD118 (M), PD119 (J), PD129 (O), PD133 (P) and PD139 (L), to which we can add Moore's PD121 (Z)

 

Correction of typo: the initial production batch of GS aircraft were PB995-8 vice PD995-8.  Also suspect an error may have crept into Moore's article with the identification, allegedly by Rawes, of PD119 as YZ-T: it is well attested elsewhere as YZ-J. 

 

[*] References: Mason: The Avro Lancaster, Robertson: Lancaster, Holmes: Avro Lancaster, Osprey Elite: 617 Squadron, Lancaster At War 2 & 3, Flower: A Hell of a Bomb (Tempus, 2002).