Jure Miljevic Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hello, Andre I have been examining photos of F-104 G and S you posted and also many others and perhaps F-104 S vertical tail leading edge looks slightly steeper but I am not certain about it. Is that what you meant? Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Jure Andre refers to the ventral fin, not to the tail. The tail is the same in the G and the S, but the ventral fin is different: in the G the leading edge sweep angle is approximately 20°, the S ventral fin has a sharper leading edge, around 45°. On a model it's a very easy modification, just chop a small bit of the G leading edge and you'll get an S leading edge. This is a small detail that IIRC no modelling company got right. Mind, there are very few real S kits around anyway, only the 1/72 Hasegawa kit and the 1/32 Italeri have all the proper S parts... apart from the ventral fin. The sharper leading edge of the S is visible in this picture of an S-ASA I took in an Italian museum Also visible is one of the 2 extra ventral fins typical of this variant (and how the stencils on the overall grey Italian aircrafts were in very dark grey, not black) Edited February 16, 2017 by Giorgio N 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hello, Giorgio Thanks for the clarification, I was not aware Andre had been talking about ventral fins. I have two old Esci F-104 G/S kits in 1/72 with additional S ventral fins added, although central fin needs some trimming as you mentioned. I remembers seeing two TF-104 Gs in gray overall scheme on Airpower aeromeeting in Zeltweg back in 2000. Not only were stencils in dark gray, so were unit and individual aircraft numbers, matricula militare, and IIRC also squadron badges. I was delighted to see Starfighters there, although I was a bit surprised as I thought they had been already phased out of service. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boman Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 In 1/48 you get the necessary correction parts to render a proper F-104S in the Daco improvement set. Really a gem, although costly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Hello, Boman I checked Daco set on the web and it looks great. While examining photos of hundreds of parts one may wonder, why does not Daco just make those few parts that are not included and sell it as a complete kit? Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivand Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 On 16-2-2017 at 11:27 AM, Jure Miljevic said: HI remembers seeing two TF-104 Gs in gray overall scheme on Airpower aeromeeting in Zeltweg back in 2000. Not only were stencils in dark gray, so were unit and individual aircraft numbers, matricula militare, and IIRC also squadron badges. I was delighted to see Starfighters there, although I was a bit surprised as I thought they had been already phased out of service. There are some nice videos floating about on Youtube of Italian TF-104's on Kleine Brogel airbase in Belgium in 2004. The sound of those engines is pure melancholy: TF-104G Howling sound while getting ready for takeoff.mp4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Apologies for hijacking the thread, I've got a Starfighter question too. About to start the Eduard boxing and trying to decide which scheme to do. The front runners are the Belgium, Turkish and Dutch markings but quite fancy doing a four tank fit with dual sidewinder rails under the fuselage. Which airforces used the fuselage dual missile rail? Thanks Muzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Hello, Muzz I presume we are talking about F-104G and its derivates? Netherlands, Denmark, Norway (probably converted CF-104 nuclear bombers only) and Taiwan on F-104G. I think I saw a photo of Helenic Air Force F-104G with a pair of Sidewinders under the fuselage, too, but I am not certain about it. Also, Japan on F-104J, Italy on F-104S along with tip tanks and a pair of Sparrows underwings. Turkey also had F-104S, although I do not know in which configuration Starfighters had been flown there. Not a complete list, but I hope it helps. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 2017-02-10 at 2:02 AM, Boman said: Glad to be of help. Let me know if you require the main gear covers to update the F-104J to a -G I also have the bulged doors and fat tires if you stil need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 2017-03-09 at 2:16 PM, ivand said: There are some nice videos floating about on Youtube of Italian TF-104's on Kleine Brogel airbase in Belgium in 2004. The sound of those engines is pure melancholy: TF-104G Howling sound while getting ready for takeoff.mp4 Yes, the sound of a 104 is pure melancholy. I grew up to the sound of CF-104s. I even did summer OJT on CF-104s in Germany and I even managed one back-seat ride! In 2004, the Starfighters team visited CFB Cold Lake for our airshow. It was nice to see them return to our flight line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boman Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said: Hello, Muzz I presume we are talking about F-104G and its derivates? Netherlands, Denmark, Norway (probably converted CF-104 nuclear bombers only) and Taiwan on F-104G. I think I saw a photo of Helenic Air Force F-104G with a pair of Sidewinders under the fuselage, too, but I am not certain about it. Also, Japan on F-104J, Italy on F-104S along with tip tanks and a pair of Sparrows underwings. Turkey also had F-104S, although I do not know in which configuration Starfighters had been flown there. Not a complete list, but I hope it helps. Cheers Jure The Norwegian CF-104's were upgraded to full F-104G standard, with C2/S2 seat. Greek and Turkey's Starfighters were hand-me-downs from Italy, Germany, Norway etc. so could carry this if the donor nation did. The Italian F-104S' didn't fly with Y-rack under the belly, although a special type was tested. Belgium didn't use the belly rack, although their Starfighters could carry it. If you ask me, I would go with either Norway, Denmark, Netherlands or Germany - or Japan or Taiwan should this be your choice. Edited March 11, 2017 by Boman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, Muzz said: The front runners are the Belgium, Turkish and Dutch markings but quite fancy doing a four tank fit with dual sidewinder rails under the fuselage. Which airforces used the fuselage dual missile rail? The Dutch did use the underbelly AIM-9 rails on our F-104G's, but only with the dedicated interceptor units 322 and 323 Squadron at Leeuwarden - D-8331, the Eduard Dutch option, is from the Volkel-based 312 Squadron, wich as a strike / attack unit did not carry Sidewinders. HTH, Andre Edited March 12, 2017 by Hook 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Boman said: The Norwegian CF-104's were upgraded to full F-104G standard, with C2/S2 seat. They did not get the larger wheels and bulged main gear doors like our Danish CF-104s did, did they? Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boman Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Don't think so Jens, but otherwise the same as the F-104G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Thanks Boman, that's what I figured. Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 11/3/2017 at 7:28 PM, Boman said: The Italian F-104S' didn't fly with Y-rack under the belly, although a special type was tested. The S used the BL22 pylons. These were indivudual pylons attached to the sides of the fuselage lower surface. They were wired to carry Sidewinders but fell from use very early. There were two reasons for this: - the Sidewinders carried so low suffered damage from any debris on the runway - firing the Sidewinders from these pylons could cause the ingestion of the missiles exhaust gases from the engine intake These dangers resulted in the pylons being considered for "war use" only. However these pylons were often seen mounted at static displays during airshows to boast the weapon carrying capability of the Starfighter. I've even seen pictures of bombs attached to these pylons, for example UK made BL755. However bombs were not cleared for use on the BL22 pylons because parts of the bomb release mechanisms could have been sucked into the engine intake with imaginable consequences. Still, an F-104S with loaded BL-22 pylons look very cool ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boman Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks Giorgio N - always wondered what the Italian pylons were called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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