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Spitfire MKXIVe NI*K roundel type.


Rick Brown

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Chaps.

Just applying the decals to an Academy 1/48th Spitfire NH895 NI*K and have noticed something.

The wing top roundels with the kit are type "B", but the Xtradecals I'll be using are stated as Type "C".

Quite different as you can imagine.

Googling around every model picture I can see has the type "B", but I can't find any pictures of the real aircraft.

Anybody know which is correct?

I'm modelling the aircraft based at 451 Sqn, RAAF Fassberg, Wunsdorf or Gatow, 1945.

 

Rick.

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19 minutes ago, spitfire said:

And black spinner and no Sky band.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

Bother, sky spinner already! No band though.

 

6 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

You can see a hint of white on the upper wing in this photo, just to remove any lingering worry.

Yes, I thought that too when I saw it.

 

Rick.

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2 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

But a Sky spinner, just to be awkward.  Could be the CO trying to stand out, or perhaps a replacement.

They just could not resist making it harder for future modellers !

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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Rick,

 

No. 451 Sqn did not get their Spitfire XIV aircraft until the latter part of 1945. So late war markings are appropriate.

 

I have attached a shot of NH895, NI-K, taken at Gatow, Germany. The spinner appears to be Sky. Note, that it is not a case of no Sky fuselage band, but rather, a case of the Sky band having been over-painted, as the squadron was no longer part of Fighter Command, but part of the British Air Forces of Occupation. The second shot of NH919, (the CO, Graham Falconer's kite), shows the upper wing roundels. They look to have a Yellow outer ring, i.e. C1 not C type. Note also, that most, if not all, of No. 451 Sqn's Spitfire XIV aircraft carried the squadron's unofficial badge under the port windscreen quarter panel.

 

HTH

Peter M

 

NH895_01_zps0ovuoope.jpg

 

NH919_01_zpswoh9oh1i.jpg

 

Emblem_01_zpszecqx94o.jpg

 

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9 hours ago, Magpie22 said:

The second shot of NH919, (the CO, Graham Falconer's kite), shows the upper wing roundels. They look to have a Yellow outer ring, i.e. C1 not C type.

Peter M

 

 

 

NH919_01_zpswoh9oh1i.jpg

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify - all 2nd TAF aircraft were ordered to be painted with what are now known as 'Type C1' roundels (i.e. with narrow yellow outer rings) above and below the wings. They were already in place on the fuselage.  The order was made on  2 Jan 45, to be actioned the following day, but it took until 5 February 45 to complete the work. At about the same time other RAF Commands had their Type B wing roundels changed to Type C (no yellow outer ring). 

 

Postwar 2nd TAF became BAFO but there was no rush to change the roundels in line with the rest of the RAF. I have photos which show Type C1 on Tempests' wings in service in 1948.  However new aircraft received after the hostilities do not appear to have had the yellow rings added i.e. both styles of wing markings to be seen for at least 3 years in Germany.

CT

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Ah!

Well, mines now got just the type C roundels above the wings and it'll now stay like that forever!

Very interesting stuff and I would have used a C1 roundel if I'd have know because it would have been more likely.

Thanks chaps.

 

 

Rick.

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13 minutes ago, Rick Brown said:

Ah!

Well, mines now got just the type C roundels above the wings and it'll now stay like that forever!

 

Rick.

 

Well Rick, for all we know, someone may have  painted out the yellow rings on 'K' before they were told not to bother ...

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Can I add "me too"?  The only sort-of excuse is that the 1945 roundel that sprang to my mind was on an SOE Halifax - which was not in 2 TAF, as Chris could no doubt point out.

 

Re Halifax: I will shamelessly add that if anyone knows of any C roundels at 90in in 1/72, will they please let me know?   (That's 60in in 1/48, which doesn't appear to have been a standard, but I may not be that fussy....) 

 

Edit:   I had said 84in, but despite appearing as a B type on at least one of my Halifax sheets, the  majority measure nearer to 90in.

Edited by Graham Boak
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20 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Can I add "me too"?  The only sort-of excuse is that the 1945 roundel that sprang to my mind was on an SOE Halifax - which was not in 2 TAF, as Chris could no doubt point out.

 

Re Halifax: I will shamelessly add that if anyone knows of any C roundels at 84in in 1/72, will they please let me know?   (That's about 58in in 1/48, which doesn't appear to have been a standard, but I may not be that fussy....) 

 

Modeldecal set 103, has two C roundels at 84" on it.

 

Mark.

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Sadly these are not common: it is one of my standard wishes to decal manufacturers but so far they are resisting stubbornly.  It does of course reduce considerably the number of possible roundels they can put on their sheets.  The only kit that springs to mind that does this is the 1/72 Hasegawa Hurricane.  Because of the thinness of the ring, it is the C1 roundel that suffers most from misalignment - even on dedicated sheets.

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6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Sadly these are not common: it is one of my standard wishes to decal manufacturers but so far they are resisting stubbornly.  It does of course reduce considerably the number of possible roundels they can put on their sheets.  The only kit that springs to mind that does this is the 1/72 Hasegawa Hurricane.  Because of the thinness of the ring, it is the C1 roundel that suffers most from misalignment - even on dedicated sheets.

Hi Graham,

 

I used the Red Roo decals for my 1/72 Sptfire XIV last year and from memory, they have the Yellow component of the roundel as a seperate item. The corresponding 1/48th item is probably the same  Refer this item in the forum.

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11 hours ago, Chris Thomas said:

 

Just to clarify - all 2nd TAF aircraft were ordered to be painted with what are now known as 'Type C1' roundels (i.e. with narrow yellow outer rings) above and below the wings. They were already in place on the fuselage.  The order was made on  2 Jan 45, to be actioned the following day, but it took until 5 February 45 to complete the work. At about the same time other RAF Commands had their Type B wing roundels changed to Type C (no yellow outer ring). 

 

Postwar 2nd TAF became BAFO but there was no rush to change the roundels in line with the rest of the RAF. I have photos which show Type C1 on Tempests' wings in service in 1948.  However new aircraft received after the hostilities do not appear to have had the yellow rings added i.e. both styles of wing markings to be seen for at least 3 years in Germany.

CT

Thanks for cleaning up my poor answer, Chris. I posted the photos in a bit of a hurry - SWMBO was waiting for me to take her out for dinner.

Peter M

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On 9/2/2017 at 3:39 AM, Michael louey said:

Hi Graham,

 

I used the Red Roo decals for my 1/72 Sptfire XIV last year and from memory, they have the Yellow component of the roundel as a seperate item. The corresponding 1/48th item is probably the same  Refer this item in the forum.

Red Roo RRD4849 451 Squadron RAAF The Away Team Part 3

Has it in 1/48, and for NI&K. They, however, claim that it is as seen in Berlin in October 1945.

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