West German F-104G x 2

[mirageiv]

On 4/24/2017 at 9:20 AM, modelling minion said:

The F-102 might make an appearance on this GB, if I get my finger out with the MIg.

Not sure which scheme the TF-104 will be in yet, I am drawn towards a German machine (either Luftwaffe or Marinefleiger) or maybe Italian or Greek.

 

Nice Craig, would love to see the F-102 on top of the Mig. A model I've been thinking of doing for a while now and I think I'd use the same kit so another bonus to see how it goes together. 

 

20 hours ago, Hewy said:

Flippin eck  ,that has to be the most complete and complex decal set ever, they look to have took the gloss coat well, looking forward to seeing them in their decal finery, 

Absolutely class

Glynn

 

Cheers Glynn. Yep, they sure liked their stencils! I think its circa 500 per stencil sheet then a few more off the main sheets per aircraft, madness! I've been using close up shots of the real aircraft as much as possible as I'm going around applying the decals and crikey it does seem DACO got every one so far. Really trying to motor on with them this evening to get my own deadline of Sunday for having them finished, starting to worry about the GB deadline now, so much left to do!

 

David

[Hewy]

Don't  rush them now david I'm  sure you'll have enough time, they will be definitive builds for the 104 gb for me,ill look into the daco stuff too

Glynn

[mirageiv]

On 4/25/2017 at 7:48 PM, Hewy said:

Don't  rush them now david I'm  sure you'll have enough time, they will be definitive builds for the 104 gb for me,ill look into the daco stuff too

Glynn

 

Thank you Glynn, believe me there are still a fair few things wrong with these (like below!) but honestly they are close enough for me!

 

I was decaling the starboard fuselage of the Luftwaffe model and it had been going quite well,

 

 

I did notice some very slight cracking in one or two spots unfortunately of the clear layer though, I thought this would disappear under weathering and matt varnish so I continued but fearing this wasn't over

 

 

Everything looked ok in certain places,

 

 

Then I noticed the cracking on the intake had got worse, so I went over the airframe and began finding this,

 

 

It is quite fine, but enough to be noticeably in the flesh

 

 

 

, it seems to be like this in a few more places on the Gelboliv mainly and some bits over the grey. It must have been about 1.5 weeks after I applied the grey and a 2-3 days after the olive when I applied the Klear layer, I guess I should have waited longer! Well crap, I'll have to retire this one from the GB and think of a way how to fix this, with stripping the paint a last resort but I certainly will not give up on it long term, too much time and money invested in this one in particular. Also given how the cracking has increased over the last few days in places, a quick fix on the worst areas could be a waste of time if everywhere else ends up doing the same thing. I think I'll leave it for a while and have a go when the motivation is there and to see how much work really is needed.

 

Oddly the Alclad Aqua gloss I sprayed over the tanks with the same paint+drying time has not cracked at all, admittedly not the smoothest gloss layer I have ever done but certainly not cracking,

 

 

Fortunately I sprayed the Aqua Gloss over the Marine model so everything is fine on that one so I'll have one to enter in the gallery hopefully.

 

 I'm not sure if it is the Klear or not waiting long enough for the paint to cure, I assume the later but it does make me think even if I waited a month it could have still happened, it felt dry. Oh well, live and learn, hopefully I'll have a more upbeat update at the weekend

 

cheers

 

David

Edited April 26, 2017 by mirageiv

[modelling minion]

Really sorry to see the issues you have had with the cracking David, and sorry that this one will not make the GB but I understand why and would not want you or anyone else to rush a model for a deadline. Perhaps try a very light sanding with micromesh, it might help smooth things out. I am glad that the Marinefleiger one will continue though.

[Hewy]

Unbelievable david it was going so well, that future can be so unpredictable at times,  it is like crazing isnt it, i agree probably a reaction to the paint ,at least you can rescue it like craig said very fine micro mesh and water, i think you'll be surprised it may only be the future and not gone down to the paint level ,,soz pal

Glynn

[mirageiv]

26 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

Really sorry to see the issues you have had with the cracking David, and sorry that this one will not make the GB but I understand why and would not want you or anyone else to rush a model for a deadline. Perhaps try a very light sanding with micromesh, it might help smooth things out. I am glad that the Marinefleiger one will continue though.

 

11 minutes ago, Hewy said:

Unbelievable david it was going so well, that future can be so unpredictable at times,  it is like crazing isnt it, i agree probably a reaction to the paint ,at least you can rescue it like craig said very fine micro mesh and water, i think you'll be surprised it may only be the future and not gone down to the paint level ,,soz pal

Glynn

 

I had been on a role for a year or so with no major paint cock ups so one was bound to come sometime soon! I agree with you guys and thanks for the advice, I'll let it sit for a few weeks/months and try seeing what some light sanding can do once everything is rock hard and cured, probably will have to get a new stencil sheet as some parts have cracked under the decals too but hopefully not all is lost. In a way it is a bit of blessing as I was doubting I'd get them both done how I wanted before the deadline, one should defo be doable however given I've been knocking up quite a few other bits for the Marine one in the background for a while now.

 

cheers

 

David

 

 

[Cookenbacher]

Sorry to see the cracking David, that's frustrating. I searched around here on BM to see if I could find anything. It seems to occur (rarely) with Tamiya and Gunze with Klear/Future, but I couldn't find any fixes.

I had a matt coat go cloudy last year and was able to sand it out with one of those multi-grit very fine sanding/polishing sticks and re-coat.

[Shalako]

Hi David,

 

Sorry, to see the "cracking". Did you use Humbrol's 'Klear'? 

[Mountain goat]

Hi David,

 

Despite the cracking in the finish, the two 104s are still looking very sleek and inspiring. Regs the cracks: is it not simply a matter of a little 1000 or 1200 grit and some buffing afterwards?

 

Jay

[mirageiv]

On 4/27/2017 at 2:11 AM, Cookenbacher said:

Sorry to see the cracking David, that's frustrating. I searched around here on BM to see if I could find anything. It seems to occur (rarely) with Tamiya and Gunze with Klear/Future, but I couldn't find any fixes.

I had a matt coat go cloudy last year and was able to sand it out with one of those multi-grit very fine sanding/polishing sticks and re-coat.

 

Thank you for helping to find a solution cookie, much appreciated  Yep not so much out their with it cracking over enamels but I assume like the Gunze stuff it was my lack of patience and getting the Klear on too early before it had cured, doh! 

 

On 4/27/2017 at 0:40 PM, Shalako said:

Hi David,

 

Sorry, to see the "cracking". Did you use Humbrol's 'Klear'? 

 

Hi Bill, I did buy a bottle and tested it months back at the start of the build over some Xtracolor enamel that had cured for weeks, it also cracked , I've actually binned the stuff now as it seemed to crack over nearly every paint I use, so another one to watch out for.

 

On 4/27/2017 at 4:28 PM, Mountain goat said:

Hi David,

 

Despite the cracking in the finish, the two 104s are still looking very sleek and inspiring. Regs the cracks: is it not simply a matter of a little 1000 or 1200 grit and some buffing afterwards?

 

Jay

 

Thank you Jay. I have tried sanding it gently now with different micromesh grades to see how much I could remove, unfortunately before the cracking is fully gone I start getting through to the paint and sanding that too, therefore quite a few bits will require repainting. 

 

The worst part is, it is increasing over time and very slowly starting to appear in other places now around the model, even on the grey which had maybe 10 days or so to cure. 10 days I think should be long enough, so maybe the Klear is too old, who knows but its looking more like a full paint stripping session is the only way to go now. I'm going to leave it now and maybe revisit it in a few weeks.

 

Thanks for the helpful suggestions fellas, just goes to show I should have tested the paint/klear layer combinations beforehand to double check everything would be ok, always learning!

 

David.

Edited April 29, 2017 by mirageiv

[Cookenbacher]

If nature were just, ten days seems like it should be enough - very frustrating.

[RMP2]

No. Im not having that. Just no.

 

Sorry to see indeed. Really hope it stops and a simple patch up can be sorted.

Why do these things happen so close to the finish? Its always bloomin clear coat screwing things up. Not fair at all.

 

Fingers crossed for this lovely pointy thing.

[Flyingdutchman]

Hi David,

 

What a bummer!! You're progress was so good. Really a pity that the gloss finish is playing ball. Despite all that I enjoyed reading your topic!

Looking forward to your next build.

 

Evert

[mirageiv]

On 4/29/2017 at 7:48 PM, Cookenbacher said:

If nature were just, ten days seems like it should be enough - very frustrating.

 

On 4/29/2017 at 9:07 PM, RMP2 said:

No. Im not having that. Just no.

 

Sorry to see indeed. Really hope it stops and a simple patch up can be sorted.

Why do these things happen so close to the finish? Its always bloomin clear coat screwing things up. Not fair at all.

 

Fingers crossed for this lovely pointy thing.

 

On 5/1/2017 at 9:24 AM, Flyingdutchman said:

Hi David,

 

What a bummer!! You're progress was so good. Really a pity that the gloss finish is playing ball. Despite all that I enjoyed reading your topic!

Looking forward to your next build.

 

Evert

 

Cheers guys, I know right, I'm still yet to find a clear coat I'm happy with (though I think it is more me than the product!). Evert, the Marine model is still on the go  

 

I finished putting on the stencils the other day and have started some weathering. I chose to do this aircraft, http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2214.htm  and probably how I will model it in the end with the red RBF pieces. Only a few pics here as other things are in the works so I'll do a proper update in a few days when finished with better ones.

 

 

 

Hoping the matt varnish lightens it up a bit, still looks a bit too dark to my eyes after adding the ( probably too many) layers of gloss.

 

 

Still loads to do, better get a move on! Just wanted to show this one is crack free  

 

Thanks for looking,

 

David.

[RMP2]

Well, having the second one looking so good is something I guess.

Apologies if I missed it - are they eduard  korma ransom? Haha I'm leaving that autocorrect! Kormorans I mean!

[Lex77]

Let's hope you can fix the Air Force one.

The Marine one is looking very nice. 

[Mountain goat]

Looking gorgeous   - Especially the grey-aluminium under surfaces, very nice.

 

Jay

[Hewy]

Ahh david that is sublime, top drawer, I've been otherwise engaged with my own disaster on the 111 ,else I'd have saw this earlier exellent finish

Glynn

[mirageiv]

On 5/2/2017 at 8:34 PM, RMP2 said:

Well, having the second one looking so good is something I guess.

Apologies if I missed it - are they eduard  korma ransom? Haha I'm leaving that autocorrect! Kormorans I mean!

 

Cheers Rob! Yep those are the Eduard ones, putting Kormorans on this model wasn't the original plan so I didn't bother ordering the extra spruce with the DACO set. After deciding I did in fact want them I went for the Eduard ones (think they were less than a fiver on offer from Creative models so hard not too) which was about 1/4 of what the parts+postage from DACO was IIRC for just 1 missile. Though having made them now and comparing with the DACO ones, the DACO ones are better in fit and shape, oh well! I'll show the pics I have of the weapons in the next update, they still look the part enough for me though.

 

On 5/3/2017 at 8:28 AM, Lex77 said:

Let's hope you can fix the Air Force one.

The Marine one is looking very nice. 

 

3 hours ago, Mountain goat said:

Looking gorgeous   - Especially the grey-aluminium under surfaces, very nice.

 

Jay

 

2 hours ago, Hewy said:

Ahh david that is sublime, top drawer, I've been otherwise engaged with my own disaster on the 111 ,else I'd have saw this earlier exellent finish

Glynn

 

Thank you guys  I've given it a matt varnish now which has lightened the base colour back up a bit, though a lot of the shading has been swallowed up in the various varnish layers, may do some more later on but will see what you guys think first.

 

Glynn, just about to go have a look see.

 

cheers

 

David. 

[RMP2]

Interested to see the missiles final outcome too, I have them stashed in the Eduard 104 boxing of the kit. One day... one day......

 

Keep going, man, bound to be a blinder as per usual.

[modelling minion]

Looks fantastic David, great finish and decal work.

Interested to see the differences between the two sets of missiles.

[franky boy]

Nice work David.

 

The Marine build is looking fantastic already. Sorry to see your issues with the clear cote on the airforce build. I'm sure it will turn out equally as well in the end.

 

James

[mirageiv]

Thank you guys, I have been doing quite a few jobs on the kit, some photos here. I'm having trouble with photobucket, it just has not worked/uploaded properly for days now for me, the ones below are all I could get on there at the moment.

 

The Kormorans and pylons are Eduard items. Given they were about 1/4 of the price of the extra spruce needed from DACO to get a 2nd Kormoran   , I went with them instead. After looking at quite a few photos, the DACO missile seem more accurate though, better shaped (nose, body and fins), longer and a bit fatter. The Eduard ones look the part overall and will do but the nose is probably the most noticeable problem, I tried fixing it a little (unsuccessfully) but it really needs more work. These are just my opinions from photos, not facts I must add!

 

The main fin inserts had large gaps (more Eduard shrinkage problems I think) and required some filling, something always a bit risky i find with resin as it sands so easily so I used Mr. Dissolved putty and wiped away the excess, then a light sanding to blend that in. The drill Aim-9Bs are from the DACO set. DACO did provide a clear lens for the seeker but IIRC it was too small, besides I tried something different there.

 

 

 

In the process of drilling out the rocket nozzles, I tried using a few different drill sizes to make the slight bell shape of the nozzle, they were smoothed out some more after this. The etch end caps I found did not fit either and needed filling/blending with superglue. If I'm honest I don't rate these Eduard Brassin Kormorans much, at least it is an option though without going the expensive DACO route. 

 

 

 

These drill weapons were carried to airshows all around Europe and their appearance sometimes showed it. From various pics I could see some strong paint chipping and fading (this especially on the Kormorans) so I wanted to weather them quite a lot, or at least show they have been well used.

 

So primed in Mr Surfacer, though I mixed some Mr.Color Gloss clear in the mix and it gave a nice satin surface to paint on,

 

 

 

Then sprayed with Alclad and hairspray for chipping. The hairspray made the Alclad go a more silver colour,

 

 

The weapons are now finished but I can't upload the pics. 

 

The nozzle on the above left is the DACO one, about the same size as Aires, both way bigger than the Brassin one. The interior of the DACO one is probably the best because it has a more correct throat, the Aires one barely tapers at all inside, however the Aires has the best detail from the three. I added some internal rods to the DACO one,

 

 

I modified the rear a little so it would mate with the reheat chamber and flame holder from the Eduard exhaust set (trying to get some use from it), should do the trick but no photos of that either atm.

 

The weapons and other bits have been in the works for months now and completed, with a good few photos taken so I thought I better stick some in here otherwise the next update (whenever I can get photobucket working) would be massive!

 

Thanks for looking, hopefully more frequent updates until it is finished.

Cheers,

 

David.

Edited May 8, 2017 by mirageiv

[mirageiv]

Photobucket seems to work now so here is the rest of the update from the previous post! 

 

So the drill weapons were sprayed with a dark olive drab mixture (the background is making them look a little green here), then some chipping with a toothpick using photos as references to make sure I didn't over do it, washes and oil staining, bit of dry brushing and a final satin-matt layer. 

 

 

They did seem to weather/bleach on the top, mainly where the nose and forward body is not covered by the wings. 

 

 

Eduard supplies all of the live markings for them and a few white drill markings. They missed however the pretty much only discernible stencil though for the drill version, 3 light grey bands so I masked and sprayed them. Also I tried to paint the seeker heads to look something like the images mid way down this page: https://designer.home.xs4all.nl/models/f104-72/f104-revell-esci.htm

 

Well it didn't really work, in sunlight the shiney Alclad below the clear blue does make them shine but otherwise they look a bit bland indoors, maybe I will use the yellow seeker covers instead now. Next time, and in 1/32, I'll have a go at making proper lenses with clear sheet and some sort of seeker behind.

 

 

 

Not sure why but a while ago I decided to have the nose wheel turned, so after the cut I drilled and inserted a little steel rod for strength,

 

 

 

Then added a little detail, most noticeably the steering mechanism. I might use the Brassin wheels as they are very nice, though again maybe more shrinkage problems as they are noticeably smaller than the kit parts! 

 

 

Some little details added to the main legs and doors that can sort of be seen. I started off using wire but I find stretched spruce much easier for jobs like this. I'm never really bothered about detailing gear bays as it is hard see on the F-104 also these will never be in any competitions and as long as there is something I'm happy, fortunately Hasegawa has done a decent effort imho for the main gear bays as the real thing seems like a nightmare to try and replicate.

 

 

 

The bare metal bits sprayed with gloss black then Alclad highly polished aluminium (my fav Alclad shade), ready now to start painting.

 

 

 

I think I'm about done with the bulk of the weathering now. Funny how much shading etc disappears when the varnishes goes on so I went back and tried again. Remember this is the actual aircraft here, http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2214.htm , albeit a bit later than I'm modelling it but still it isn't in a bad condition. Maybe mine is weathered a bit more than this but not as much as I originally was going for, oh well I'll take it! Some touch ups still to do also.

 

 

I went quite subtle on the WA undersides with greys/tamiya smoke, I attempted also to fade the stencils in a bit. Just a point on the below pic, the codes and cross on the fuselage sides is usually not spaced equally between the camo colour split, it is aligned to the front and from what I can tell the top fuselage spine. The F-104 has that banana shape so it makes this tricky to get right, plus not all jets were the same. The camo split, from every photo I could see, goes from the intake shock cone tip and lines up to the central line of the pitot probe, Just though it was worth mentioning before anyone though the decals were wonky!

 

 

 

Like Craig's Mig-25, I prefer subtle panel line washes too so I used an oil mix only slightly darker than the main colours, different shades for the top and bottom. I've yet to paint the gear bays, though they are sprayed in a base aluminium but it looks indifferent in the pics. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because I faded one tank a lot, the fresh stencils didn't look right so they were faded in too,

 

 

Where as the fresh orange was left quite stark and glossy,

 

 

 

 

 

I take these photos in pretty poor light most times where as outside the shading really comes alive hopefully in the RFI pics, even on a white background it comes out different again. None of them are really capturing the correct colour or variation but the general idea.

 

 

 

Quite a load for such tiny wings!

 

 

 

I'm planning on sticking quite a bit of FOD and RBF tags on it so I got the little Eduard etch set. I think I finally found a piece of etch that I would require one of those 'pro etch bender' bits of kit, the wing edge guards. I had a go with my usual steel ruler and the mangled bits of etch are the results . Instead I made my own from plasticard, which if I'm honest look more true to scale. They are simply thin strips with a strong V notch scribed in one side so they slot over the wing edges, then a tiny hole drilled for the RBF tag attachment, still not entirely sure how the heck I'm going to attach them with wire as it is micro for my hands but I'll give it a go. The AOA probe covers and intake guards are still in the works as the Eduard versions of these can be improved on imo.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking, hopefully more soon, can see the finish line now!

 

David

Edited May 9, 2017 by mirageiv

[modelling minion]

Good work knocking those Kormorans into shape David, I like your idea for the rocket motor exhaust very effective.

The exhaust is looking good too, an improvement over the kit one.

The last post just appeared whilst I was typing this and WOW! What a difference a coat of paint has made to the missiles, nice job on the AIM-9 seeker head.

The F-104 itself is looking superb, has to be your best yet, and that's saying something!