Homebee Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) After the Su-33 (thread here: link), Kinetic is to release in 2017-2018 a 1/48th Shenyang J-15 Fēishā "Flanker-D" kit - ref. K48065 Source: http://data3.primeportal.net/models/thomas_voigt11/kinetic/images/kinetic_7_of_7.jpg V.P. Edited November 16, 2017 by Homebee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 good news! wonder if that will be some collaboration with Dream Model? They have a very nice and complete update set already! or if they are gonna provide us with slide molded Chinese missiles? good to see a new version of this fantastic kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Box art Sources: https://www.facebook.com/Kineticmodel/photos/a.150625411771245.1073741825.129238860576567/821725551327891/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/Kineticmodel/photos/a.129549237212196.28239.129238860576567/867469930086786/?type=3&theater V.P. Edited October 17, 2017 by Homebee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I've just about finished converting an Su-33 too........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Dream Model update set is really nice I used it but it is nowhere near to be complete. It just provides wing tip pylons for J-15 whereas all the pylons on J-15 is different from those of Su-33. Plus we lack the Chinese missiles. I would LOVE to see Chinese missiles in single piece, that will be great. I am so looking forward to this kit. I hope they are close to release. Also, some J-15 uses WS-10 engine so different exhausts... I will buy probably multiple of this once it is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 13 hours ago, foxmulder said: Dream Model update set is really nice I used it but it is nowhere near to be complete. It just provides wing tip pylons for J-15 whereas all the pylons on J-15 is different from those of Su-33. Plus we lack the Chinese missiles. I would LOVE to see Chinese missiles in single piece, that will be great. I am so looking forward to this kit. I hope they are close to release. Also, some J-15 uses WS-10 engine so different exhausts... I will buy probably multiple of this once it is out. Hate to be the breaker of dreams but I don't think the kit will have single piece Chinese missiles. Kinetic I think are just not quite there with the tooling so any new missiles will be traditionally tooled in multiple parts. Hope I'm wrong and I most certainly frequently am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom726 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Missiles in the Su-33 kit are single piece. Beautifully done BTW 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Phantom726 said: Missiles in the Su-33 kit are single piece. Beautifully done BTW 😊 They certainly are but not tooled by Kinetic, they were designed and tooled by Aviation Art who started and nearly completed the Su-33 project before handing it on to Kinetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 You are probably right, their F-18 does not have single piece missiles. Well, one can still hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICMF Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 9 hours ago, Muzz said: They certainly are but not tooled by Kinetic, they were designed and tooled by Aviation Art No. Aviation Art is not a tool shop. Kinetic isn't a tool shop, either. Tooling is subcontracted out. If Kinetic want the missiles to be slide-molded in one piece, and if it's within the budget, they'll hire a company that can make slide-molded, one-piece missiles. You're not wrong in that the missiles will probably have a conventional breakdown, but it's not because Kinetic can't but AA could; it's because Kinetic doesn't think it makes economic sense to do so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick V Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 56 minutes ago, ICMF said: No. Aviation Art is not a tool shop. Kinetic isn't a tool shop, either. Tooling is subcontracted out. If Kinetic want the missiles to be slide-molded in one piece, and if it's within the budget, they'll hire a company that can make slide-molded, one-piece missiles. You're not wrong in that the missiles will probably have a conventional breakdown, but it's not because Kinetic can't but AA could; it's because Kinetic doesn't think it makes economic sense to do so. That exactly describe our concern. In Su-33 projects, we examine the cost. The tooling itself is not a problem. The problem is he labor cost involved. Recently a lot of new kit focus on one piece missile slogan. We study in detail whether we follow the same route to change all missile to this approach. But seems we can only implement on certain high detail multi axis detail on the fin type missile. And those missile design not good for high volume production (for our US missile sprue we produced more than 500,000 shots so far) if we need to make a one pc missile, multiple that number by 6 to 7 times as the one pc missile cannot require only 3 to 6 missiles per tooling. The material and labor required would make the kit production cost sky high. But of course if the more customer demand and willing to pay for it, why not ? This is not technical issue just commerical consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJL Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Too much to hope that a company will release a two seater Flanker with the canards? MKI, MKM, MKA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I, for one, would pay more for one piece missiles. I am a happy owner of multiple Kinetic Su-33 and GWH F-15 kits One of the reasons why I love them is single piece missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIO Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, foxmulder said: I, for one, would pay more for one piece missiles. I am a happy owner of multiple Kinetic Su-33 and GWH F-15 kits One of the reasons why I love them is single piece missiles. Seriously? Is that so important? If more people share this, then it might make sense to produce a separate kit containing just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ka-Efka Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 imo it's very convenient, but not very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, DIO said: Seriously? Is that so important? If more people share this, then it might make sense to produce a separate kit containing just that! Of course!! I also think there is a strong demand for them otherwise Eduard and many other aftermarket resin manufacturers wouldn't produce them, right? GWH and Su-33 missiles are no different than resin ones, they are great. Actually they are even better! I would rather pay to the kit maker to support further projects. Edited July 17, 2017 by foxmulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick V Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Dear Foxmulder, As a modeller we can see it is good to provide the one pc missile option. Eduard is resin offering, and aftermarket supply is different from plastic kit injection. We heard some voice to provide super detail option in plastic form in order to provide better value for the modeller. One pc missile is something similar to ind link track link in AFV market. The new question is those option require cost and production capacity to deliver. If the percentage of customer is not large enough to pay the price then large number of consumer have to pay something they 'nice to have' option. The one pc missile for sure a good idea, but it may push the production cost and finally affect the retail price. And then the consumer will complain the kit too expensive. The debat will go back to basic form: whether the market need an affordable kit with option from aftermarket for fill certain high grade market or we provide eventhing in a plastic with a higher price tag? We have seen the proof of provide everything in one box not too success in AFV (after years of implementation) well now the same issue raise to plane market. Edited July 18, 2017 by Mick V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIO Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 The truth is that, no matter what the companies do, they cannot make everyone happy. Personally I am fine with a good kit, with correct dimensions and shape and with good transparencies. I would happily invest more to buy aftermarket detail sets and decals for it. I have never bought a separate kit for the missiles etc, but i do see that most of the modellers consider them as necessary (not just nice to have) for a well detailed model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Mick V said: Dear Foxmulder, As a modeller we can see it is good to provide the one pc missile option. Eduard is resin offering, and aftermarket supply is different from plastic kit injection. We heard some voice to provide super detail option in plastic form in order to provide better value for the modeller. One pc missile is something similar to ind link track link in AFV market. The new question is those option require cost and production capacity to deliver. If the percentage of customer is not large enough to pay the price then large number of consumer have to pay something they 'nice to have' option. The one pc missile for sure a good idea, but it may push the production cost and finally affect the retail price. And then the consumer will complain the kit too expensive. The debat will go back to basic form: whether the market need an affordable kit with option from aftermarket for fill certain high grade market or we provide eventhing in a plastic with a higher price tag? We have seen the proof of provide everything in one box not too success in AFV (after years of implementation) well now the same issue raise to plane market. I am just a consumer. I do not know anything about production or the amount of cost increase due to single piece missiles. I almost always used after market armament in my models. However, this changed with Kinetic Su-33 and GWH F-15s. These models spoiled me Joking aside for me this way is even cheaper. With Su-33, I did not buy anything aftermarket so the cost was actually cheaper for me. I may be in minority but as I wrote, I would not hesitate to pay more for Chinese missiles which are at same quality with the R-27s supplied with the Su-33 kit. The price of Su-33 kit is very much acceptable for me. What is the cost increase per kit due to single piece missiles? The price difference between Kinetic F-18 (no single piece missiles, a smaller aircraft) and Su-33 (with single piece missiles, a larger aircraft) is only around $10. From this, I assume that single piece missiles cost like $5-10 extra? Is the Su-33 kit making enough money? I hope to see beautiful new parts for J-15 box with similar high quality Su-33 kit has. Hope to see it released soon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ka-Efka Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 hours ago, DIO said: The truth is that, no matter what the companies do, they cannot make everyone happy. Personally I am fine with a good kit, with correct dimensions and shape and with good transparencies. [...] These are the essentials. Do this, and I'll buy your kit. Don't do this, and no matter what else you throw in there, I don't buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick V Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Ka-Efka said: These are the essentials. Do this, and I'll buy your kit. Don't do this, and no matter what else you throw in there, I don't buy. Dear Ka-Efka we absolutely agree. Do you notice the in the forum we do not have any major complaint on the shape after our Mirage 2000 series ? Like Mirage III, F-5, Harrier, Hornet, AMX, Kfir .. ? We spend quite a lot of effort in confirming the basic shape. The time cost involved even more than fancy slide mold tooling. Normally the shape validation stage takes 6 months to 12 months before we go into details. That what we out our resources into. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 In J-15 case, the vast amount of design work has been already done since we have Su-33 kit. It is a business philosophy. I got it. However, we have Mercedes and then Toyotas. I want Mercedes but I guess I cannot stop Toyota being Toyota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmsman Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) On 7/16/2017 at 8:13 PM, DIO said: Seriously? Is that so important? If more people share this, then it might make sense to produce a separate kit containing just that! This? More details here: http://www.hyperscale.com/2016/reviews/accessories/skunkmodelsw48029reviewbg_1.htm Edited July 19, 2017 by Helmsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIO Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Helmsman said: This? More details here: http://www.hyperscale.com/2016/reviews/accessories/skunkmodelsw48029reviewbg_1.htm For Chinese machines though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I hope to see more of this type of high quality missile/ammunition sets from the companies but I think this was a one of from Kinetic/Skunkmodels since they already had the molds from the Su-33 kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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