P-40 = Tomahawk/Kittyhawk?

[HansReggelsen]

Hi all!

 

I have figured out which P-40 type is called what in RAF service:

 

P-40 B/C = Tomahawk

P-40E (4 guns) = Kittyhawk Mk. I

P-40E (6 guns) = Kittyhawk Mk. IA

P-40F (shorttailed/Merlin-engined) = Kittyhawk II

P-40L (longtailed/Merlin-engined) = Kittyhawk II

P-40K = Kittyhawk III

P-40M = Kittyhawk III

P-40N = Kittyhawk IV

 

So far - so good. 

 

I also understand that there weren't many Kittyhawk II (P-40F/L) delivered to th RAF.

 

Now here's my question: 

 

Would a P-40F/L delivered to the RAAF be called a Kittyhawk II? Or was it still a P-40F/L 

 

Cheers 

Hans J

[Antoine]

The answer is in your post.

[PFlint]

P-40D is 4 wing guns Kittyhawk Mk 1

P-40E is 6 wing guns Kittyhawk Mk 1A

( just pointing out a typo)

[Biggles81]

The P-40F/Ls delivered to the RAAF were used in the Middle East principally by 3 Sqn and were generally known by their RAF nomenclature of Kittyhawk II. None were used in the SWPA.

[Magpie22]

It is as Biggles says. Strictly speaking, the Kittyhawk II aircraft operated by No. 3 Sqn RAAF were not delivered to the RAAF, and never entered the RAAF stores system. They were RAF aircraft.

In the SWPA the RAAF tended to use the designations P-40E, P-40E-1, P-40K, P-40M and P-40N, but still called them all Kittyhawks.

Peter M

[Biggles81]

You are of course correct Peter, the P-40F/Ls were on RAF charge and were not taken on RAAF charge.

[Magpie22]

Sorry Biggles,

Just couldn't resist making a comment. Not often I can 'catch out' someone with your knowledge!

Cheers,

Peter M

[Hornet133]

There are a couple of things not entirely correct with the original listing.

 

The P-40Es purchased directly by the UK were designated P-40E-1 by the Mfr and Kittyhawk Mk.1 by the RAF (same as the 20 P-40D models received). These had British equipment (Radios, Batteries, Electrical Systems - different voltage to the US ones, etc) because they were direct purchase by the UK.

 

The ones built at that time for the USAAC were designated P-40E by the Mfr and had US Equipment.

 

When Lend Lease was introduced the UK then had to accept the airframes built to U.S standard (Radios, Batteries, Electrical Systems etc) and they were designated P-40E-1a by the Mfr and Kittyhawk 1a by the RAF (they had to be designated different to the direct purchase airframes due to the Equipment differences).

 

P-40L (longtailed/Merlin-engined) were designated Kittyhawk IIa by the RAF (not Kittyhawk II).

 

Steve Mackenzie

[HansReggelsen]

Thank you all for your wise words! 

 

I knew I could count on you guys to help me out!  

 

Cheers 

Hans J

[LDSModeller]

7 hours ago, Hornet133 said:

 

When Lend Lease was introduced the UK then had to accept the airframes built to U.S standard (Radios, Batteries, Electrical Systems etc) and they were designated P-40E-1a by the Mfr and Kittyhawk 1a by the RAF (they had to be designated different to the direct purchase airframes due to the Equipment differences).

 

 

 

Steve Mackenzie

Though, when received by RAF/Commonwealth countries (RAAF/RNZAF) the airframes were fitted with the Sutton

Harness. P40E-1's ("a" in your parlance) flown in USAAF in the Pacific service would have had a US style harness fitted instead.

Radio systems like the SCR274 as installed,  were more suitable in the SWP theatre where Commonwealth Air Forces were serving alongside USAAF/USN units.

Cockpit colours were RAF spec.

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Dana Bell]

8 hours ago, Hornet133 said:

There are a couple of things not entirely correct with the original listing.

 

The P-40Es purchased directly by the UK were designated P-40E-1 by the Mfr and Kittyhawk Mk.1 by the RAF (same as the 20 P-40D models received). These had British equipment (Radios, Batteries, Electrical Systems - different voltage to the US ones, etc) because they were direct purchase by the UK.

 

The ones built at that time for the USAAC were designated P-40E by the Mfr and had US Equipment.

 

When Lend Lease was introduced the UK then had to accept the airframes built to U.S standard (Radios, Batteries, Electrical Systems etc) and they were designated P-40E-1a by the Mfr and Kittyhawk 1a by the RAF (they had to be designated different to the direct purchase airframes due to the Equipment differences).

 

P-40L (longtailed/Merlin-engined) were designated Kittyhawk IIa by the RAF (not Kittyhawk II).

 

Steve Mackenzie

 

Hi Steve,

 

Are you sure of your sources on this?  What I've found at the Archives suggests that all P-40E-1s were paid for through Lend-Lease funds and built to British standards.  From the records of the joint standardization committee, there was a list of differences agreed to by the Brits and Americans to minimize distinctions between the E and the E-1.  (BTW, the six-fifties armament was a Brit request that the Yanks thought sounded pretty good!)

 

I'm still in the early stages of my digging, but I've not yet found any mention of the E-1a, nor have I yet turned up the records for changes to the E-1 when they were transferred to AAF units.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

[BS_w]

For the fluids lines,  I read that P40E-1 used US line color code and H87 British line
color code. For this reason, was it possible that british received P40E-1 instead H87?

Edited February 1, 2017 by BS_w

[KRK4m]

On 1.02.2017 at 1:26 PM, Hornet133 said:

There are a couple of things not entirely correct with the original listing.

P-40L (longtailed/Merlin-engined) were designated Kittyhawk IIa by the RAF (not Kittyhawk II).

 

OK, so what about the long-tailed 6-gunned P-40Fs (some 105-110 for the RAF) and (very few, perhaps seven or so for the RAF) short-tailed 4-gunned P-40Ls?

Were they called accordingly to the manufacturer/USAAF variant or to the fuselage length?

Cheers

Michael

[Buz]

Just a quick one to clean this up, the list should read (based on Mfr records):

 

H-81A                                   Tomahawk I

H-81A-1                                Tomahawk IIa

H-81A-2                                Tomahawk IIb

H-87A-2                                 Kittyhawk I

H-87A-3                                 Kittyhawk I

P-40E-1                                 Kittyhawk Ia

P-40F-1                                 Kittyhawk II (all F models used by RAF were F-1, no later models delivered to RAF)

P-40K (numerous subtypes)  Kittyhawk III

P-40L                                    Kittyhawk IIa

P-40M (numerous subtypes) Kittyhawk III

P-40N-1                                Kittyhawk IV

P-40N-5 above                      Kittyhawk IV (Some documents refer to as Kittyhawk IV series 1 but not called so in service)

 

The RAF did receive about 10 P-40C, but never formally taken on charge before being sent to Russia. As for the P-40E-1, these were built to British standards and were a continuation of British Line numbers according to the Mfr.

 

Buz

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Buz

[HansReggelsen]

Thanks, Buz, for the update.! 

 

Cheers 

Hans J