bobsyouruncle Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 This is one of those questions which sounds so silly that I'm starting to regret asking it even as I write it, but I just haven't found photo evidence yet to give me the answer. Anyway, here goes... so I'm modelling a Tempest with the pilot in circa Jan 45, Holland, (snow on the ground). I realise that the Irvin 'flying' jacket must have been called a 'flying' jacket for 'flying' reasons, but I've not seen any photos of a Tempest pilot sat in the cockpit actually wearing one despite best efforts. I've seen plenty of shots of the pilots standing on the ground wearing them, though. I've no idea how good the heating was in a Tempest cockpit, or how cramped they were with parachute and all and my question is simply 'would a pilot in this period be more likely dressed in a Irvin for flying, or in his battledress top? I've seen quite a few shots of them dressed in just the battledress, sat in their cockpits but none in obvious winter conditions. Thanks for bearing with me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Bear in mind that Tempests in 2TAF were tasked with low level missions, and altitude is the big driver of temperature, vastly more so than ambient weather on the ground. I've never flown a Tempest obviously but big engined aeroplanes with liquid cooling and minimal insulation tend to be a battleground between the outside air temperature and the heatsoak from the engine and cooling system. The aircraft did have a cockpit heating system for which abundant waste heat was potentially available via the coolant and oil cooing systems. I know the early Typhoon in prototype form was found to need more cockpit heat, but that was in the context of its original intended use as a high level interceptor, test flights to 32,000 feet and specific mention in the reports of it getting chilly "as height was gained". It seems entirely possible that the heating in the Typhoon and Tempest family was subsequently improved. Edited January 21, 2017 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The Typhoon and Tempest were pretty warm in the cockpit at lower levels. Shirt sleeves in summer. I've never seem photos or fit of pilots in Irvin jackets in winter 44/45. Battledress and scarves or Polo necks. Most pilots were in Army battledress (since late Normandy days). PS Working on your other query Bob. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsyouruncle Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Excellent. Thanks very much for that. I went looking through most of my books and every photo I found of a fighter pilot in the cockpit wasn't wearing an Irvin, but I wanted to check here. Much appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malpaso Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Its an excellent question. I have both a battledress jacket (49 pattern) and an Irvine copy. They're about equally warm in the cold, but the BD being wool is more comfortable in warmer conditions! How anyone could actually get into a Spitfire and then operate it wearing an Irvine beats me, it's jolly good thick heavy sheepskin but adds about 6 inches to your shoulder width... Apart from recce Spit and Escort mustangs, most fighter missions would be done in a couple of hours, most of the RAF photos of full Irvine gear seem to be of bomber crews, where you were out for hours all night, away from the heat of the engines and plenty of gaps and joints to let the cold in, particularly for the gunners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85sqn Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Irvine's actually stopped being issued to fighter pilots in 1942 I believe. As the war progresses you see less of them wearing it and more in just battle dress. Bomber crews continued to be issued it obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsyouruncle Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 I came across this today, which seems to back up what's been said here and I've linked to it here for anyones interest. The Irving starts to feature on page 22. I must admit I hadn't even considered the khaki coloured battledress top until Chris mentioned it and this article covers that one too. Cheers Bob. https://www.aerosociety.com/Assets/Docs/Publications/The Journal of Aeronautical History/2014-01_Rood_Aircrew_clothing.pdf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael51 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Ah yes, the measured tones, indeed, unbeatable quality of a refereed journal article. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you for posting. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 not a Tempest, but a good shot of a 2nd TAF pilot in khaki batteldress Hawker Typhoon. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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