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Desert - German SPGs


Stephen Hawkins

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I have been modelling armour in 1/72.  I have recently been focusing on English and Commonwealth AFV's from Operation Compass, Operation Crusader right through to the German Surrender in Tunisia.

 

I have a varied selection of kits from Milicast, Aeritalia, revel (old matchbox) etc.

 

Having worked through the obvious Allied tanks and armoured cars and considering winding up with some of the softskins, which are more esoteric (i.e. expensive) - 2/6 pounder Portees, etc.  I now am looking at the other side.

 

Apart from the obvious Panzer I/II/III/IV and the odd Stug or Tiger what else can model.

 

I have a Revell Wespe, done in DAK, but am not sure about?  What about other SPG's?  Early Grille H?  Marder II?

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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No Wespe or Grille AFAIK, but the Marder II (available in 1/72 from MPK Modellbau), Marder III Ausf H & Marder III(r) (all available in 1/72 from Unimodel) are all OK.   There's also the Pz.Jg. I (4.7cm Czech AT Gun on Pz.I chassis, available from Italeri in 1/72) and a DAK special SPG: 

 

150mm-self-propelled-panzer-ii.jpg

 

It's a 150mm Infantry Gun on a Pz.II chassis:  http://www.lonesentry.com/ordnance/gw-ii-fr-15-cm-s-i-g-33-s-p-heavy-infantry-howitzer.html  (available in 1/72 from Attack Hobby).  :nerd:

 

PS - There's also this:  http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/15cm-sig-33-l11-auf-fahrgestell-panzerkampfwagen-iii-ausf-h-sf/  (also available in 1/72 from Attack Hobby).

 

PPS - Don't take on Attack Hobby kits lightly, even their newer stuff.....If you've got a good few older kits under your belt and are OK with fiddly resin bits you'll be fine, if not.....

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These sites are very useful too:

 

http://henk.fox3000.com/index2.htm  Lists almost every Braille kit ever released in any format.

 

http://www.onthewaymodels.com/  Has some useful reviews, hints & tips from some very experienced Braille modellers.

 

 

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The Wespe was also done by Matchbox and even included a palm tree with the dio base.  I believe this was a misread of facts somewhere on their part, and Revell just copied this?  Though the 21st Pz Div. was part of the DAK, the unit (but not DAK), was resurrected  after it's destruction in Tunisia, and it would be in Italy where it would receive the Wespe.   There actually are palm trees in southern Italy, so if the instructions hadn't included the term Afrika Korps, they would of been fine. 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Other vehicles to consider include 4 and 8 wheeled armoured cars, as well as various half tracks.  And what about the Italians, they had plenty equipment invested in the desert.

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

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Yup, assuming you are including Tunisia.....Here's one being delivered:

 

3d9310c256aa40c10006ecff4cd50e98.jpg

 

Some more info here:  http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1470672245/Marder+II+(Tunisia+1943)

 

I wasn't aware that there were two variants of the Marder II.  :hmmm:

 

PS - Jack, 21 Pz. Div. never made it to Italy, the division was reconstituted (from scraps) in France.  Hence all the strange odds and sods (like Bovington's hybrid Pz.IV and the various Becker assault guns) in their TOE.  :nerd:

 

 

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Sarge, what would I do with out you - I rechecked my reference I was looking at last night, and my response about the 21st panzer is like a combination of dyslexia and lack of sleep - wow! lol, thx for correcting that.

I need to go bed earlier rather burn the midnight oil on these forums.

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

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On 20/01/2017 at 7:49 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Yup, assuming you are including Tunisia.....Here's one being delivered:

Some more info here:  http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1470672245/Marder+II+(Tunisia+1943)

 

I wasn't aware that there were two variants of the Marder II.  :hmmm:

 

Many thanks: we live and learn.  This is the "other" Marder II:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=7.62+cm+PAK+36(r)+auf+Pz+Kpfw+II+Ausf+D&client=firefox-b&biw=1280&bih=699&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRvPfyndbRAhVoIcAKHQSRCJEQ7AkIJg#imgrc=hB6tO4RifP3QuM%3A

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Thanks for the replies.  Pity about the Wespe, but Milicast do a Grille H for North Africa, perhaps a handful sneaked into Tunisia in the final months.  Its a pity, as it looks good, but I already have built the Attack Models version of it - which was a struggle, that I more or less got away with.  It seems to be often mistaken with something called a Bison.  There is the odd bit of War footage on youtube showing a Grille H, but describing it as a Bison.

 

Marders seem to be a law unto themselves with regard to naming, as its not as simple as it looks, 38T or Panzer II based, there is a Marder II and III version for each chassis.  So I will have to be careful.

 

And, as reminded, I have to do some Italian stuff as well. 

 

But I am already learning that some of the mainstream kits are not as accurate as they might be (Airfix Sherman and Grant with their tiny turrets and a very long Hasagawa Crusader III).  And I have to keep in mind that two similar tanks from differnet companies will differ greatly, not to mention the differences between 1/76 and 1/72.  Even done a couple of Armourfast tanks, but they do need detailing, to say the least.

 

Italieri and Machbox/Revell seem to be able to hold their own with Milicast Battlefield series though.  But not, perhaps, with the Premier range.

 

Still there are plenty of British and Common Wealth vehicles to be getting along with for the moment.  LRDG Fords, 2 pdr Portee, 6 pounder Portee, Otter, Jeep, etc.  And I have still to get a Cruiser A9.

 

At least with this scale I won't run out of shelf space as soon as some.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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The Henk of Holland site I linked to earlier is the single best guide to what is out there.  :coolio:

 

If you start to get the hankering for rare & unusual kits (and don't mind waiting a VERY long time for orders to be filled), this is the place for you:  http://tracks-n-troops.eu/shop/

 

Clicking that link is not entirely unlike opening pandora's Box.....Be warned.  :mellow:

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Some Stugs made it to North Africa, Ausf Ds and maybe others.  Nitto used to do an Ausf D in 1/76.

Does the Italian Semovente count?  I've seen pics of it in German markings, but they could have been taken in Italy.

 

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Four StuG III D's about the time of El Alamein and later one battery (6) of Stug III F8's.

Marder II and III and the Panzerjaeger Ib. 

Never have found a verifiable photo of a Grille H in North Africa, but I have seen several Sdkfz 135s, the "Lorraine" with the 15cm howitzer. 

 

G

 

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Likewise with the Grille, I've looked through a fair few of my references without finding one.....According to the MBI text on the Marder & Grille:

 

The first 25 vehicles were shipped in February 1943, followed by 40 in March and 25 in April

 

This doesn't leave an awful lot of time for the crews to train with them and deploy before the campaign in Tunisia ended in May of 1943.  :shrug:

 

PS - Semovente in German markings are very likely to be post September 1943, after the Italian surrender and German takeover. 

 

PPS - The Bison SPG is not the Grille.....It's the Sturmpanzer I, a 150mm IG (complete with wheels) on a Pz.I chassis.

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Bit more reading of the same MBI text finds this on page 67-68:

 

Quote

A special chapter in the combat history of the tank-hunters Sd.Kfz.139 & 138 was their participation in the battles in North Africa.  In the chapter which focusses on their development we have mentioned their tropicalized version, built exclusively for the German Afrika Korps in the spring of 1942.  BMM shipped about 70 Sd.Kfz 139 vehicles between May & September 1942, and later tropicalized versions of the Sd.Kfz.138 Ausf H, as these also appeared on the African battleground.

My emphasis added.

 

I'm wondering if it's comments like this that are the source of the confusion as both the Marder & Grille were designated Sd.Kfz.138 Ausf H or Ausf M (according to hull layout).....Based on the production dates quoted in my previous post and the apparent total absence of supporting pictures of an African Grille, I'd be reasonably confident in suggesting that all such comments refer to the Marder rather than the Grille.  :nerd:

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