mackem01 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Evening boys & girls........Thanks to the very generous nature of our MikeC I find myself the proud owner of a very large B24. I am looking to finish it as Coastal Command and to that end I was wondering if any of you could recommend any publications that would be worth getting hold of that would give details of any mods, particularly those strange "cheek mounted" RP sponsons. Any help would be much appreciated....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Some RP info: Chris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Lots of Liberator images here, though none with RP's. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=Consolidated Liberator Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Exactly what scale are we talking about here? I take it from your description of a "large B-24", it's not 1/72 ... which is a bit of a pity as Pavla do a beautiful resin set with vac clear parts, that covers both the GR.V/VI as well as a set for the rocket projectiles. Scott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I take it to be the Monogram 1:48 kit. Don't know about the rockets, but there are resin bits around by Belcher Bits for the nose radome and other Coastal Command mods - see http://www.belcherbits.com/lines/148conv/bb16.htm#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Aviaeology did a set of decals in both 1/48 and 1/72 that included K.O.Moore's aircraft (2 U-boat kills in one night) that carried rockets. Doesn't seem to be available any longer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelglue Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 The rocket-cheeked Liberator is in my to do pile as well in the CC scheme. Such an interesting take on the B-24 and with decal/resin aftermarket support in 1/72 I had to jump on the sets when they were available. That all said, I am not familiar with the realm of 1/48. You could still definitely do a "normal" CC Liberator with all the decals sets available to purchase? I'm not at home ATM, but I think there is either an osprey or squadron signal book on the CC Liberator. I will look when I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 My base model is a 48th scale B24J (courtesy of MikeC's bargain), so it will have to be a GR Mk.V so those lovely rocket rails are out the window! Still plenty of interesting options available though. If you could dig out that CC Liberator title and an ISBN number Modelglue, it would be greatly appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I strongly recommend Oughton's The Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service from Air Britain. Not as cheap as the Osprey, but look on the AB website to see if they still have any in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Ottawa Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I don't think this has been mentioned, but the aircraft isn't carrying US HVAR's, but instead has British 25-lb AP RP's, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 13 hours ago, Steve in Ottawa said: I don't think this has been mentioned, but the aircraft isn't carrying US HVAR's, but instead has British 25-lb AP RP's, right? They don't look like the standard Brit RP to me, are the units illustrated an adaptation of the standard ones used on Typhoons, etc?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) They have the 25lb armour-piercing head, rather than the 60lb High Explosive head. Otherwise they are the same. It was found, opposite to expectations, that the AP head was more effective against ships and the HE head against vehicles. PS I think the original Airfix Mosquito has a representation (sort of) of these heads. But that's a long time ago, and I wouldn't recommend them. Edited January 20, 2017 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelglue Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 19 hours ago, mackem01 said: My base model is a 48th scale B24J (courtesy of MikeC's bargain), so it will have to be a GR Mk.V so those lovely rocket rails are out the window! Still plenty of interesting options available though. If you could dig out that CC Liberator title and an ISBN number Modelglue, it would be greatly appreciated. I found some info in Squadron's "in Action" series B-24 Liberator #1080. ISBN (10) 0-89747-190-3. There is a section on the CC plane and a small colour profile section you may find useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wheels Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 This book is worthwhile although not cheap.I'd never seen 90% of the photos in it. http://www.japo.eu/products.php?prod=17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Was this link already posted?: http://www.ipmscanada.com/ipms/Review/Decal/Decal_Page/B-24 Avia.html Cheers J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 As far as I know only the Chech 311 Sqn. used RPs on operation with Liberators. Bengt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 10 hours ago, Bengt said: As far as I know only the Chech 311 Sqn. used RPs on operation with Liberators. Bengt A few yeas back I did some research on this topic as I was (still am) building K.O. Moores aircraft. I found the following :- 8/7/43 Squadron Leader T.M.Bulloch in GR.V BZ721 ‘R’ sank U-514. I think he was attached to 224 Sqdn while performing trials for the A&AEE. 27/9/43, 311 Sqdn. ‘G’ (BZ786), based Beaulieu, unsuccessful attack on U-boat. 10/10/43, 224 Sqdn. ‘M’, based at St.Eval, unfortunately hit a Free French submarine which had wrongly surfaced in a prohibited area with two rockets. The submarine safely reached Plymouth a week later although the crew had suffered casualties. 23/10/43, 224 Sqdn. ‘Z’, based St.Eval, sank U-274 10/11/43, 311 Sqdn. ‘D’ (BZ774), based Beaulieu, shared in sinking U-966 27/12/43, 311 Sqdn. ‘H’ (BZ796), based Beaulieu, sank the surface blockade runner Alsterufer 26/6/44, 311 Sqdn. ‘O’ (BZ763?), based Predannack, sank U-971 with rockets & depth charges 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 One note for modelling CC Liberators - most were fitted with the Boulton Paul tail turret as used in the Halifax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 That's true, I believe, for Mk.IIIs/Vs but there do seem to be a lot of Mk.VI/VIIIs with the Consolidated rear turret. Unless Mackem01 is planning a lot of conversion work his B-24J kit will make one of the latter. Allowing for the multiple nose variations as best covered in MMP's Consolidated Mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: That's true, I believe, for Mk.IIIs/Vs but there do seem to be a lot of Mk.VI/VIIIs with the Consolidated rear turret. Unless Mackem01 is planning a lot of conversion work his B-24J kit will make one of the latter. Allowing for the multiple nose variations as best covered in MMP's Consolidated Mess. That's the impression I have too, but the first photo I laid hands on was a Mk.VI with BP turret (IWM CH20692) so not straightforward. I have the Oulton book, but not to hand for a few weeks - that may give definite information on when/why the change took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Fortunately I have it handy: in the variant breakdown Oughton states only that some Mk.III/Vs had the BP turret but doesn't mention it on the later variants. The first photo I found was EW214 with the US guns, but this was a B.VI. The second was EV882, a GR.VI with the BP turret, but EW288 was a GR.VI with the US one. There may be other photos showing aircraft in between EV288 and EW214, but the closest I've found is EV872 with the BP. Every serial I've seen above EW214 has the US turret at the rear. Presumably the approved number of BP turrets were fitted until they ran out - there doesn't seem to be any good reason for preferring them on the nose-turreted version, and why make work? Presumably there was some kind of Works Order to that effect, but if so it seems that Oughton either didn't find it or simply didn't realise that there was any reason to look for one. Perhaps it is still present in SA archives? Edited January 29, 2017 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, rossm said: A few yeas back I did some research on this topic as I was (still am) building K.O. Moores aircraft. I found the following :- 8/7/43 Squadron Leader T.M.Bulloch in GR.V BZ721 ‘R’ sank U-514. I think he was attached to 224 Sqdn while performing trials for the A&AEE. 27/9/43, 311 Sqdn. ‘G’ (BZ786), based Beaulieu, unsuccessful attack on U-boat. 10/10/43, 224 Sqdn. ‘M’, based at St.Eval, unfortunately hit a Free French submarine which had wrongly surfaced in a prohibited area with two rockets. The submarine safely reached Plymouth a week later although the crew had suffered casualties. 23/10/43, 224 Sqdn. ‘Z’, based St.Eval, sank U-274 10/11/43, 311 Sqdn. ‘D’ (BZ774), based Beaulieu, shared in sinking U-966 27/12/43, 311 Sqdn. ‘H’ (BZ796), based Beaulieu, sank the surface blockade runner Alsterufer 26/6/44, 311 Sqdn. ‘O’ (BZ763?), based Predannack, sank U-971 with rockets & depth charges You are absolutley right Ross. Oughtons Liberator book has 224 Squadron as operational with RPs. Bengt Edited January 29, 2017 by Bengt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Don't know if the Coastal Command Liberators had them but as per the side guns in this pic: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205208937 check at the 5:04 mark to see how they looked from the inside: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F02637/ Jari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) I could never work out why 4 x .303 BP tail turrets were fitted to CC Liberators and the 2 x .50 tail turrets were removed particularly when they retained the upper Martin turret with 2 x.50's in them, was it British pig headedness insisting on the BP turret? latter Liberators had all .50 armament ,but the earlier ones had mixed , always thought this strange! The B-17's retained all .50 but not the Lib. Edited February 3, 2017 by Sydhuey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 50 minutes ago, Sydhuey said: I could never work out why 4 x .303 BP tail turrets were fitted to CC Liberators and the 2 x .50 tail turrets were removed particularly when they retained the upper Martin turret with 2 x.50's in them, was it British pig headedness insisting on the BP turret? latter Liberators had all .50 armament ,but the earlier ones had mixed , always thought this strange! The B-17's retained all .50 but not the Lib. Going from memory - which may be wrong so I will try to find the reference - there was an issue with directional stability when the Consolidated rear turret was rotated. Presumably not so marked, or deemed possible to live with, with the GRVI/VIII which had the nose turret so different aerodynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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