MISSING: Dambusters Log book

[Mancunian airman]

I dont know really where to put this but WWII topic seemed appropriate . . . from another site I belong.

 

Members can we please share and send to any one you may know in the collectors world and onto other forums. especially the US sites

Search for WWII Dambuster’s stolen log book

A man has been found guilty of stealing a treasured log book from the widow of an RAF airman who was part of the legendary World War II 'Dambusters' squadron.

Last week Alexander Bateman, of Headstone Lane, Harrow was found guilty of theft. However, despite officers proving that the log book was stolen, the treasured item has yet to be recovered.

Bateman, a keen military historian, contacted the victim and asked if she could send him anything belonging to her late husband, which would assist him with his research. The victim duly sent her husband's log book to assist with his research.

Several years later, the family requested for it to be returned, but Bateman declared that the log book had been gifted to him by the victim. He produced a Christmas card which he claimed was from the victim, that had a note inside saying she had gifted it to him. Bateman then stopped returning any calls and suspiciously reported a burglary at his address where he claimed intruders broke into his home and stole the log book - a day before a national newspaper published a story about the dispute.

Officers later attended Bateman's address, where they found the Christmas card he claimed was from the victim. Handwriting experts carried out analysis of the writing in the card, and concluded that it was almost certainly not written by the victim.

Acting Detective Sergeant Henry Childe said: "Bateman lied about his willingness to return the treasured RAF log book, which belonged to the widow of one of the 'Dambusters' air men. Sadly, the log book has never been found and Bateman has refused to tell us what happened to it.”

Anyone with information as to the whereabouts of the missing log book should contact Acting Detective Sergeant Henry Childe on 020 8345 4552 or call Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.




https://www.facebook.com/metpoliceuk/ Metropolitan Police Service Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/460562154139045/ BCHF Facebook page

[Wm Blecky]

Bateman sounds like pure scum, a real slim bucket.  I hope the logbook is found.

[Edge]

What a horrible man. I hope he does the decent thing & returns the logbook to the rightful owners.

 

[fightersweep]

Of course, that wasn't the only thing he'd been up to, being sentenced to 12 months last June for "other" offences...

 

Harrow Times has the full story...

 

Best regards;
Steve

[Selwyn]

Drop him out at 60 ft over the ladybower reservoir, see if he bounces.................................

 

Selwyn

 

(Not impressed with this chap!)

[303sqn]

Sadly this has been ongoing since at least 2003.

 

http://www.ukpressonline.co.uk/ukpressonline/explore/EG/SExp/2003-06-29/final/page36;jsessionid=E40FAFBF16D4B4C3DC597AF1E57192BE

Edited January 17, 2017 by 303sqn

[Mike]

While I know or can guess what we all think of the miscreant that perpetrated this crime, let's keep it to the topic in hand, and the most important goal - the recovery of the missing items.  We don't normally allow bumping of topics in the non-selling/buying areas of the forum, but if anyone's minded to bump this topic once a day, we don't mind one bit of it gives it some promenance

[Black Knight]

Problem is the phrase 'Several years later...'

After such time the log book can have been through the ownership of many collectors or researchers who have bought the log book believing it had an honest origin.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   Terrible story  hope they get it back 

 

     quite some years back I was lent a logbook, and actually had a burglary at my house, they took a load of stuff but luckily they didnt take the logbook, or any a/c stuff. 

 

   also reminds me of when i was lent some very rare a/c negs and the lab ' lost ' them for about a week

    but they turned up after the lab said no questions asked if they  'appeared'

     Jerry

Edited January 18, 2017 by brewerjerry

[johnd]

Sentenced to two years but still no sign of the log book.

 

http://news.met.police.uk/news/man-jailed-for-stealing-dambusters-book-219622

 

John.

[Wm Blecky]

Two years imprisonment hardly seems like it is enough.  Reading that Bateman is described as a "keen military historian", I'd bet that he has many items in a personal collection.  Pity that the family cannot deprive him of all those worldly possessions and give him a taste of his own medicine. 

[Black Knight]

ah, but they could.

A civil case.

A wily solicitor for them could argue that having stolen the log book he sold it on and they could seek substantial damages for the loss of a really priceless bit of history.

Onus of proof is lower in civil cases than criminal cases

[John Laidlaw]

1 hour ago, Wm Blecky said:

Two years imprisonment hardly seems like it is enough.  Reading that Bateman is described as a "keen military historian", I'd bet that he has many items in a personal collection.  Pity that the family cannot deprive him of all those worldly possessions and give him a taste of his own medicine. 

 

But at least they've deprived him of his freedom for a while, and he is now, and will always be, a convicted criminal. It's a good start.

 

It also says at the bottom of the Metropolitan Police statement that "Confiscation proceedings are ongoing in relation to the stolen log book. No date has been fixed for the next hearing." This also a good thing.

[Jonny]

17 minutes ago, John Laidlaw said:

 

But at least they've deprived him of his freedom for a while, and he is now, and will always be, a convicted criminal. It's a good start.

 

It also says at the bottom of the Metropolitan Police statement that "Confiscation proceedings are ongoing in relation to the stolen log book. No date has been fixed for the next hearing." This also a good thing.

 

Well, yes ... except he might not "always be a convicted criminal".  As I iinderstand it, and for reasons best understood by the UK legal profession (?) and presumably Parliament, some 'convictions' can be "spent" after so many years.  In other words, after a given time interval, the is no need for someone to own up to certain convictions.  I do really hope that in this case the conviction stands for life.

 

it's absolutely shocking that someone can steal a treasured memento such as a serviceman's log book.  .

 

FWITW,

 

Jonny

[John Laidlaw]

It's been a long time since I was in the profession, so I can't remember - but you could well be right about that bit. Hopefully one of the legal beagles on the forum could shed some light on it.

 

I can't understand the mentality of those who prey on the defenceless, and would rather that folk like this were never allowed the chance to do it again Horrible people.

[Wm Blecky]

35 minutes ago, John Laidlaw said:

 

It also says at the bottom of the Metropolitan Police statement that "Confiscation proceedings are ongoing in relation to the stolen log book. No date has been fixed for the next hearing." This also a good thing.

I missed that.  Thanks John.  Good to see that Bateman will face further repercussions for his actions.

[Jonny]

26 minutes ago, John Laidlaw said:

It's been a long time since I was in the profession, so I can't remember - but you could well be right about that bit. Hopefully one of the legal beagles on the forum could shed some light on it.

I was referring to the British legal system, not the US one.  There may well be differences!

 

[John Laidlaw]

4 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I was referring to the British legal system, not the US one.  There may well be differences!

 

 

Yup, me too! I just live here in the colonies now, but am from the UK - sorry for the confusion!

[Sydhuey]

Real scum bag, hope someone in jail has a little talk with him, he may drop its whereabouts during the conversation.

Unfortunately  one of the problems is many of these old vets are so giving and lend you their logbook freely, I had one old boy out here who lent me his log book (was a Gunner in another aircraft on the Newton V.C. raid ), within a day I had a phone call from his son wanting it back , as it turned out he had lent it out before to what was thought to be a prominent person in the RAAF to copy , 2 years later they got it back ! also some bright spark had highlighted bits of the log book with a highlighting pen !!

I copied the logbook and also sent a USB with the scanned book on it back and said never lend it out again , let people look at it and just give them a copy from the USB, all the log books I get to see I do this with .

[Jonny]

I'm very pleased to say that according to my morning newspaper, someone described as an historian - Alexander Bateman - has been jailed for two years for refusing to return the logbook completed by F/Sgt John Frazer to his daughter.

 

Sadly, the logbook remains missing - the thief refuses to say where it is.

 

FYI the newspaper is The Daily Telegraph.  Page 17 of the main section refers.

 

I hadn't realised that F/Sgt Fraser was the man shot down during the Dams raid but  who somehow managed to parachute safely.  He then walked 200 miles towards Holland before being captured.  After WW2 he emigrated to Canada but died in a plane crash there in 1962.  What a story!  What a man!

 

 

[Greenshirt]

I can't imagine an historical artifact is worth jail time to keep it from the rightful owner. But if that's how he feels, I hope he's miserable while there and spends the full term. Too bad we can't blast him from here with constant reminders of how horrible he is. 

[sloegin57]

On 17 January 2017 at 9:52 PM, Mike said:

While I know or can guess what we all think of the miscreant that perpetrated this crime, let's keep it to the topic in hand, and the most important goal - the recovery of the missing items.  We don't normally allow bumping of topics in the non-selling/buying areas of the forum, but if anyone's minded to bump this topic once a day, we don't mind one bit of it gives it some promenance

Bump and keep looking no matter how thin the chances

 

Dennis

[Brad]

There doesn't seem enough specific information to make a judgment on this case. Was it loaned? Was it sent with the impression it was a loan but misunderstood that it was being given? Was it willingly sent with no mention of a loan? There is also problem is the words "several years", how many years need to go by before you can consider something given to you as yours?  A messy case indeed, although he could have avoided all the trouble had he simply given it back when asked and taken a copy of it for his research.

[Nick Millman]

Prosecution for theft usually involves the necessity to prove guilty intent or mens rea - the deliberately dishonest intention to deprive the owner's right of ownership.  Where the accused believes he had the right of ownership, for example claiming the item was given to him, then that is a defence that must be weighed and judged, either by investigation or in court.  In this case the proof of guilty intent seems to have fallen on the note in the Christmas card being shown as false which therefore substantiated the dishonesty. There might be other circumstantial evidence of dishonesty in such cases, for example the owner requesting return and the accused denying possession where possession could be proved, e.g. the accused showing the item to a third party. The confiscation proceedings might relate to compensation for the victim rather than return of the logbook itself. 

 

Nick

[Peter Lloyd]

I can only say that I'm glad we kids realised the value of our late father's log book (30+ ops with 576 Squadron) and it resides in a safe embedded in concrete under a bookcase, with my father's service medals. 

 

Anyone knowing remaining veterans or their families in this situation should make them aware. My father's log book is likely to be the most significant document  in our family's heritage for several generations.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Peter Lloyd
typo