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Spitfire PRXIX PM660 stencils dilemna


Fatcawthorne

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I am nearing completion of Airfix's 1/48 Spitfire PRXIX which I have painted in an overall PRU Blue scheme to represent PM660 whilst it was based at Celle/Wünsdorf, Germany with 2 Sqn in 1947/48ish (I do love the fact that some of it's missions still haven't be de-classified!). 

 

I have found numerous side view profiles and an actual photo of a port side view in the link below.  None of these answers my questions though and I can't find any more info.

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dZOHCwAAQBAJ&pg=PR40&lpg=PR40&dq=pm660+spitfire&source=bl&ots=emXvs-fuLc&sig=cSNklK1IfEDCQ10z5_9kgoAblLs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjv0pGKtsnRAhVKIcAKHZ9kACcQ6AEIVDAM#v=onepage&q=pm660 spitfire&f=false

 

I am using the Model Alliance PR Griffon Spitfire sheet that turned up as a bonus with an old eBay purchase, however it did not come with any placement instructions and that started my digging on that www thingummy for some more info.

 

Now if I'd been sensible and had bought and used Xtradecal's X48-118 or Kits World's  KW148091 sheet then I'd have been blindly ignorant to my query and would have added stencilling and walkway lines to my lovely blue beast!   Ignorance would have been bliss.  But I have stirred my own little hornets nest, I have poked the bear, so I must now find out for sure to save what's left of my tiny grasp on sanity!!!

 

Does anybody have any confirmation that PM660 either had or did not have walkway lines and whether stencilling was minimal (which the only real picture I have seen indicates) or if it would get the whole lot of Kits World's goodies stuck all over it?

 

One other question that arose from the actual photo is that under the cockpit there appears to be a dark patch with wording underneath plus wording under the pressurisation intake, neither of which I have seen on any decal sheets. Any ideas what these might have been? 

 

Thanks for your help and as a further thank you I will make this available for RFI once I have put the final touches to this.

 

Ps I have picked up from the picture linked to, that this airframe had 4 spoke wheels and I have found just the one in my spares drawer (shed loads of 5 or 3 though, but just  the one 4-spoke) so whilst waiting for a Brassin Red Cross parcel to wing it's way to me then any photos may have to be done with just the one hub being hurriedly installed and removed to the side that I'm photographing at the time!!  First World problems eh!!  

 

Be good out there, Chris

Edited by Fatcawthorne
fat-fingered spelling mishtakes
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Hi, Chris

I also have this kit, and although it is not going to be painted as PM660, every additional information helps. For what it is worth, a colour profile of PM660 had been published in an old MPM booklet about Spitfire PR XIX. Dark patch below the canopy rail is given in the same colour as code letters, that is Insignia Red, I presume. Location is given as Fürstenfeldbrück and a year as 1946. Apart from four spoke wheels another Type 389 feature of this Spitfire is its spinner. This is absolutely new to me as in my ignorance I thought both sub-types shared the same spinner. What is the difference between them, anyway? Cheers

Jure

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Hello Chris and Jure!

 

I have a couple of books with photos of PM660. I will check if I can find any details about stenciling.

 

I built the Airfix 1/48 scale PR.XIX as PS852 (No. 81 Squadron, RAF Kai Tak, early fifties). Close up photos showed "original" stencils on the airframe. I purchased the Kit's World stencil set. Unfortunately it proved to be a dissappointment. For example: the "NAmBT INTERCOOLANT" marking is missing, "FUEL 100/130 GALL" is wrong because the octane rating was 100/130 not capacity, oil filler marking is wrong: oil capacity was 9 gallons and air space 3 gallons, "RESCUE" markings are missing and so on. On the other hand there is no complete and correct stencil set for Griffon Spitfires.

 

The difference in spinners requires a closer look. The spinner of Type 390 has fastening screws between prop blades. Type 389 has them midway between spinner tip and base.

 

Best Regards,

Antti

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Another thing came to my mind. Airfix released their 1/72 scale PR.XIX for the second time with decals for PS852. The painting instructions give High Speed Silver overall scheme with red and white spinner. According the instructions the year is 1951 and pilot Flt Lt Edward C. Powell. This is wrong.

 

Both Spitfires (PS852 and PS854) were originally PRU Blue overall with "small D type roundels" in four positions. All other markings were original (that is: war time). Some time later "small" serials were added to the wing under surfaces with gloss black. These planes were then painted to the new MSG / PRU Blue scheme (maybe during September 1952) and they were still in this paint when Powell and Sgt Walker returned to RAF Seletar . "Flight" magazine's photographer took some shots in colour of both planes in early 1953 (late February, early March). PS852 was painted silver when it was handed over to the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force.

 

So if you want to model Powell's famous Spitfire do not paint it with silver.

 

Best Regards,

Antti

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The Type 389 PR XIX is unpressurized, having the same canopy and cockpit configuration as the PR XI. By contrast, the Type 390 is pressurized, having the compressor intake on the port side below the exhausts, and the pressurized canopy/cockpit configuration common with the HF Mk VII, albeit with the PR windscreen. 

 

Regarding stencils, as both were new construction and not conversions they would have all stencils from the factory. Which if any remained after a repaint can only be confirmed by a photo, but given all were factory painted in PRU Blue then I'd expect stencils if the subjects color was still PRU Blue. Given the war was over if/when repainted they should retain their stencils as their was no wartime expediency. 

 

It's just a hunch, but those two stencils under the intake, and under the canopy; unique to the Type 390 are likely pressurization related. Remember there is no door on the cockpit of pressurized Spitfires. Most period photos don't seem  to show them, so it may be a post-war H&S requirement. 

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Hello

Found it, Antti! It can bee clearly seen on the photo of RM632. As I intend to build my kit into Type 389 (already shaved off compressor intake) I guess the best way to do it is to apply #10 decal from original Airfix set further towards the spinner's tip. Thank you also for information about missing and incorrect stencils. Greenshirt, your reasoning is sound so when the time comes, my Spitfire PR XIX is going to be fully kitted out with all kinds of stencils, walkways and other hardly noticeable stuff. Cheers

Jure

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Hello all!

 

I checked my books; here are the details on PM660 that are clearly visible:

- she had four spoke wheels

- landing gear legs and wheels were PRU Blue in 1946 and 1949

- in 1946 the spinner was PRU Blue and in 1949 it was black or very dark blue

- in 1946 there was a yellow rectangular on port side below the fixed canopy part. Usually there was black text "EMERGENCY - PULL HANDLE" on that rectangular

- black under wing serials were carried in 1946

- the code QI - X was not carried in 1949

- in 1949 at least four of No. 2 Squadron's PR.XIXs (PM660 including) carried a light coloured (yellow?) rectangular roughly the size of a "Spitfire door" on port side   under the hood. The rectangular was formed with dashed lines and it's front edge is roughly in-line with hood mid point (I hope you can follow this explanation:))

 

Many PR.XIXs carried a small horizontal arrow below the hood and a word "OPEN"; the arrow pointed backwards. Below wind screen was an arrow pointing upwards and text "HOOD RELEASE ON TOP". It looks like all these markings were painted with black (originally?) and later with yellow on both sides.

 

I'm also searching information about that stencil under the pressurization intake.

 

Best Regards,

Antti

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Antti, Jure and Greenshirt, thank you for the effort that you've all expended on my behalf, much appreciated fellas.

 

Am feeling happier about adding some more stencils now, however maybe not from the Kits World sheet!

 

Are there any books with prints of this airframe out there?

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