Jump to content

Bell Airacobra Mk1 cockpit colour


pacificmustang

Recommended Posts

I realise this may be one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, however..........  I am embarking on building the KH kit as a RAF Airacobra Mk1

Im going ro make the purely speculative assumption given the large production number and it was being overseen by the Purchasing Commission, RAF Grey Green was used for the cockpit and interior?

 

Unless anyone has definitive information that normal bell colours were used.

 

Also can anyone tell me if the nose mounted .50 machine guns were kept, or were these replaced by .303 weapons

 

Bruce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which kit is it?  It doesn'y affect any answers but I'm just curious.

 

The RAF found the P39 Airacobra to be unsatisfactory.  Only one sqaudron used it (601) and not for very long.  Any airframes completed before the order was cancelled were sent eiher to the Soviet Union or issued by the USAAF.

 

I think the unwanted airframes sent to the Soviet Union or used by the USAAF were painted in American equivalents to the RAF dark earth / dark green and Sky.  They might have retained RAF serials.  However, I THINK internal colours would habeen to American (Bell) colours, not RAF interior green.  Sorry if I'm wrong.

 

HTH

 

Jonny

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the VVS got P-39's in both Temperate Land Scheme (US applied)

13782343153_8c0dbe90e3_o.jpgBell Airacobra      1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

and repainted 

5 pages here,about Airacobra mk.I's in the VVS

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1363.0

 

 

Quote

Nick Millman explains:  "The nose stencils on rectangles of the original factory undersurface colour, indicating an early production aircraft with the high demarcation applied by Bell. The stencils were masked off when the RAF MU applied the DFS and filled in the Sky areas on nose and tail with the upper surface colours (also the reason why the camouflage demarcation in these areas on some aircraft is different from the standard scheme)."

Re-painted in Briatain in gray-green camouflage scheme
Airacobra.jpg

 

note 'sky' patches where the stencils were masked off.

the Bell Green front UC leg suggests use of  standard Bell primers.

 

The cockpits may have been equivalent Grey-Green, hopefully Nick Millman  might pitch in on that.

 

HTH

T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pacificmustang said:

I realise this may be one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, however..........  I am embarking on building the KH kit as a RAF Airacobra Mk1

Im going ro make the purely speculative assumption given the large production number and it was being overseen by the Purchasing Commission, RAF Grey Green was used for the cockpit and interior?

 

Unless anyone has definitive information that normal bell colours were used.

 

Also can anyone tell me if the nose mounted .50 machine guns were kept, or were these replaced by .303 weapons

 

Bruce

Mk 1's were equipped with 2 .50's in the nose, 4 .303's in the wings, and the 37mm cannon was replaced by a 20mm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Mk 1's were equipped with 2 .50's in the nose, 4 .303's in the wings, and the 37mm cannon was replaced by a 20mm

  Thanks 72modeler and Troy, those pics clear a few things up.  Those legs definetly look Bell Green, so Im going to presume interior and wheel wells were same.  Still think cockpits may have been grey green though

I also found this

31899612170_38a1ec9cf3_b.jpgP-39 Assembly UK-11  , on Flickr

Jonny, Im doing the Kittyhawk 32 scale kit

 

Bruce

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, pacificmustang said:

  Thanks 72modeler and Troy, those pics clear a few things up.  Those legs definetly look Bell Green, so Im going to presume interior and wheel wells were same.  Still think cockpits may have been grey green though

I also found this

31899612170_38a1ec9cf3_b.jpgP-39 Assembly UK-11  , on Flickr

Jonny, Im doing the Kittyhawk 32 scale kit

 

Bruce

It appears to me, if you look at the bulkhead behind the seat and the inside of the gear doors, that the paint looks too dark for RAF grey-green. I am guessing the cockpit, gear struts, and the interior of the gear doors are Bell green; can't tell if the gear bays are chromate green or yellow. However, Airacobra interior colors are not well-documented...where is Dana Bell when you really need him?

 

Mike

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

It appears to me, if you look at the bulkhead behind the seat and the inside of the gear doors, that the paint looks too dark for RAF grey-green. I am guessing the cockpit, gear struts, and the interior of the gear doors are Bell green; can't tell if the gear bays are chromate green or yellow. However, Airacobra interior colors are not well-documented...where is Dana Bell when you really need him?

 

Mike

Quoting from Dana Bell:

"The early cockpit color was Bronze Green (a litle darker than 14050, and almost flat). Eventually, this was replaced by Dull Dark Green (darker than 34092).  The very late production P-39s may have used Interior Green (34151), but I don't have evidence of this, one way or the other."

 

There's a couple of good color photos in this BM thread:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/69013-airacobra-bell-green/

 

The color of the small landing gear door sure likes like Bronze Green to me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that is the specified colour Seawinder for the US aircraft but did the British Purchasing Commission ask bell to paint the interiors of the RAF aircraft grey green, (and fit Sutton harnesses)

 

Looking at the above photos, Im thinking they did not and the RAF interiors too were as per your above answer

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pacificmustang said:

  Thanks 72modeler and Troy, those pics clear a few things up.  Those legs definetly look Bell Green, so Im going to presume interior and wheel wells were same.  Still think cockpits may have been grey green though

I also found this

31899612170_38a1ec9cf3_b.jpgP-39 Assembly UK-11  , on Flickr

Jonny, Im doing the Kittyhawk 32 scale kit

 

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce,

 

Lockheed painted interiors of Hudsons supplied to RAF/Commonwealth forces in British Cockpit colours.

Curtiss painted  P40E-1's for the RAF/Commonwealth with a Cockpit colour very similar/much the same as this chip

RAF Cockpit Green chip

The interior of the aircraft in Chromate Green (Apple Green Colour)

It's not surprising to me that Bell would use "Bell Green" on undercart/interior colours and an RAF Cockpit Green in the cockpit - my personal choice would be the colour chip above.

 

Hope that helps

 

Regards

 

Alan

PS photos of Hudson interiors/P40E-1 Cockpit/Apple Green Chromate colours available on request:D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

 

Hi Bruce,

 

Lockheed painted interiors of Hudsons supplied to RAF/Commonwealth forces in British Cockpit colours.

Curtiss painted  P40E-1's for the RAF/Commonwealth with a Cockpit colour very similar/much the same as this chip

RAF Cockpit Green chip

The interior of the aircraft in Chromate Green (Apple Green Colour)

It's not surprising to me that Bell would use "Bell Green" on undercart/interior colours and an RAF Cockpit Green in the cockpit - my personal choice would be the colour chip above.

 

Hope that helps

 

Regards

 

Alan

PS photos of Hudson interiors/P40E-1 Cockpit/Apple Green Chromate colours available on request:D

It does Alan.  I knew the British Purchasing Commission had stipulated cockpit colours on previous orders from US manufacturers, hence me asking the question.  No one has yet provided definitive proof one way or another, so I reckon I can still go either RAF or US colours.

 

Dave, Thanks for posting that pic.  I had been googling looking for the colour shots but could not unearth them, any more?

 

Bruce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, pacificmustang said:

It does Alan.  I knew the British Purchasing Commission had stipulated cockpit colours on previous orders from US manufacturers, hence me asking the question.  No one has yet provided definitive proof one way or another, so I reckon I can still go either RAF or US colours.

 

Dave, Thanks for posting that pic.  I had been googling looking for the colour shots but could not unearth them, any more?

 

Bruce

Color photo interpretation issues notwithstanding, and taking the time that 601 Sq had their Airacobras into account, could the grey seen in this photo be an example of the mixed grey that was used until adequate stocks of ocean grey were available? (Back in your can, worms!)

 

Mike

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Color photo interpretation issues notwithstanding, and taking the time that 601 Sq had their Airacobras into account, could the grey seen in this photo be an example of the mixed grey that was used until adequate stocks of ocean grey were available? (Back in your can, worms!)

 

Mike

 

 

Quite possibly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/13/2017 at 1:53 AM, Calum said:

Found this -  doesn't really help but I figure I'll not answer the question :D

 

http://www.axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13403

 

Thank You ,I found it useful even if no-one else did.

and these photos prove that DFS was painted onto them before delivery to No.601 SQDN

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 13/1/2017 at 09:20, tempestfan said:

Straying a bit o/t, but did the ones in DFS have A roundels on the fuselage too, as repainted? 

C type came in May 1942

On 13/1/2017 at 16:01, 72modeler said:

Color photo interpretation issues notwithstanding, and taking the time that 601 Sq had their Airacobras into account, could the grey seen in this photo be an example of the mixed grey that was used until adequate stocks of ocean grey were available? (Back in your can, worms!)

 

Mike

 

yes, mixed grey

 

Tomahawk,%20Airacobra%20&%20Mohawk%2012%

 

from

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/12-Tomahawk-Airacobra

 

HTH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:05 AM, pacificmustang said:

I realise this may be one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, however..........  I am embarking on building the KH kit as a RAF Airacobra Mk1

Im going ro make the purely speculative assumption given the large production number and it was being overseen by the Purchasing Commission, RAF Grey Green was used for the cockpit and interior?

 

Unless anyone has definitive information that normal bell colours were used.

 

Also can anyone tell me if the nose mounted .50 machine guns were kept, or were these replaced by .303 weapons

 

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

    some years ago I built Bell P-39 in VVS, French and RAF markings.

I am not an expert and the interiors were painted with US colours.

For me was very useful this:

   http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.h

Hope that helps.

 

Regards,

Paolo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Hi Bruce

 

On 17/01/2017 at 23:06, pacificmustang said:

Thanks all for your contributions.  Ive convinced myself that the cockpit was indeed Bell green , and will proceed that way

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

then this will cheer you up ;)

 

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?action=post;quote=19118;topic=1714.210;num_replies=224;sesc=bb1f192c11ce681ebe3bb0322e16d6ba

Quote

I just found interesting photos at http://sk16.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1439 of the discovery of the crashed VVS delivered from RAF.
It is Airacobra I BX225 from 2 giap flown by E.A. Gridyushko.
Interesting is original green-brown RAF camouflage scheme:

see links

http://sk16.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1313&mode=view

http://sk16.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1316&mode=view

 

 

cheers

T

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PHEW!!  When I first saw your notification Troy, I thought, "don't tell me Troy has found evidence it was grey green"  as last night I just finished painting the interior a dark green!!

 

Thanks Troy.  That does indeed cheer me up

 

Bruce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...