pacificmustang Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I realise this may be one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, however.......... I am embarking on building the KH kit as a RAF Airacobra Mk1 Im going ro make the purely speculative assumption given the large production number and it was being overseen by the Purchasing Commission, RAF Grey Green was used for the cockpit and interior? Unless anyone has definitive information that normal bell colours were used. Also can anyone tell me if the nose mounted .50 machine guns were kept, or were these replaced by .303 weapons Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Which kit is it? It doesn'y affect any answers but I'm just curious. The RAF found the P39 Airacobra to be unsatisfactory. Only one sqaudron used it (601) and not for very long. Any airframes completed before the order was cancelled were sent eiher to the Soviet Union or issued by the USAAF. I think the unwanted airframes sent to the Soviet Union or used by the USAAF were painted in American equivalents to the RAF dark earth / dark green and Sky. They might have retained RAF serials. However, I THINK internal colours would habeen to American (Bell) colours, not RAF interior green. Sorry if I'm wrong. HTH Jonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 the VVS got P-39's in both Temperate Land Scheme (US applied) Bell Airacobra 1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr and repainted 5 pages here,about Airacobra mk.I's in the VVS http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1363.0 Quote Nick Millman explains: "The nose stencils on rectangles of the original factory undersurface colour, indicating an early production aircraft with the high demarcation applied by Bell. The stencils were masked off when the RAF MU applied the DFS and filled in the Sky areas on nose and tail with the upper surface colours (also the reason why the camouflage demarcation in these areas on some aircraft is different from the standard scheme)." Re-painted in Briatain in gray-green camouflage scheme note 'sky' patches where the stencils were masked off. the Bell Green front UC leg suggests use of standard Bell primers. The cockpits may have been equivalent Grey-Green, hopefully Nick Millman might pitch in on that. HTH T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 hours ago, pacificmustang said: I realise this may be one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, however.......... I am embarking on building the KH kit as a RAF Airacobra Mk1 Im going ro make the purely speculative assumption given the large production number and it was being overseen by the Purchasing Commission, RAF Grey Green was used for the cockpit and interior? Unless anyone has definitive information that normal bell colours were used. Also can anyone tell me if the nose mounted .50 machine guns were kept, or were these replaced by .303 weapons Bruce Mk 1's were equipped with 2 .50's in the nose, 4 .303's in the wings, and the 37mm cannon was replaced by a 20mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Mk 1's were equipped with 2 .50's in the nose, 4 .303's in the wings, and the 37mm cannon was replaced by a 20mm Thanks 72modeler and Troy, those pics clear a few things up. Those legs definetly look Bell Green, so Im going to presume interior and wheel wells were same. Still think cockpits may have been grey green though I also found this P-39 Assembly UK-11 , on Flickr Jonny, Im doing the Kittyhawk 32 scale kit Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just now, pacificmustang said: Thanks 72modeler and Troy, those pics clear a few things up. Those legs definetly look Bell Green, so Im going to presume interior and wheel wells were same. Still think cockpits may have been grey green though I also found this P-39 Assembly UK-11 , on Flickr Jonny, Im doing the Kittyhawk 32 scale kit Bruce It appears to me, if you look at the bulkhead behind the seat and the inside of the gear doors, that the paint looks too dark for RAF grey-green. I am guessing the cockpit, gear struts, and the interior of the gear doors are Bell green; can't tell if the gear bays are chromate green or yellow. However, Airacobra interior colors are not well-documented...where is Dana Bell when you really need him? Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 hour ago, 72modeler said: It appears to me, if you look at the bulkhead behind the seat and the inside of the gear doors, that the paint looks too dark for RAF grey-green. I am guessing the cockpit, gear struts, and the interior of the gear doors are Bell green; can't tell if the gear bays are chromate green or yellow. However, Airacobra interior colors are not well-documented...where is Dana Bell when you really need him? Mike Quoting from Dana Bell: "The early cockpit color was Bronze Green (a litle darker than 14050, and almost flat). Eventually, this was replaced by Dull Dark Green (darker than 34092). The very late production P-39s may have used Interior Green (34151), but I don't have evidence of this, one way or the other." There's a couple of good color photos in this BM thread: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/69013-airacobra-bell-green/ The color of the small landing gear door sure likes like Bronze Green to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Yes, that is the specified colour Seawinder for the US aircraft but did the British Purchasing Commission ask bell to paint the interiors of the RAF aircraft grey green, (and fit Sutton harnesses) Looking at the above photos, Im thinking they did not and the RAF interiors too were as per your above answer Cheers Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 hours ago, pacificmustang said: Thanks 72modeler and Troy, those pics clear a few things up. Those legs definetly look Bell Green, so Im going to presume interior and wheel wells were same. Still think cockpits may have been grey green though I also found this P-39 Assembly UK-11 , on Flickr Jonny, Im doing the Kittyhawk 32 scale kit Bruce Hi Bruce, Lockheed painted interiors of Hudsons supplied to RAF/Commonwealth forces in British Cockpit colours. Curtiss painted P40E-1's for the RAF/Commonwealth with a Cockpit colour very similar/much the same as this chip RAF Cockpit Green chip The interior of the aircraft in Chromate Green (Apple Green Colour) It's not surprising to me that Bell would use "Bell Green" on undercart/interior colours and an RAF Cockpit Green in the cockpit - my personal choice would be the colour chip above. Hope that helps Regards Alan PS photos of Hudson interiors/P40E-1 Cockpit/Apple Green Chromate colours available on request 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Found this - doesn't really help but I figure I'll not answer the question http://www.axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13403 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Straying a bit o/t, but did the ones in DFS have A roundels on the fuselage too, as repainted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Yes, this pic was posted last week by Mark12 (Peter Arnold) on the Flypast forum, it's a copy of an original colour transparency. Edited January 13, 2017 by Dave Fleming 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Thanks Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 6 hours ago, LDSModeller said: Hi Bruce, Lockheed painted interiors of Hudsons supplied to RAF/Commonwealth forces in British Cockpit colours. Curtiss painted P40E-1's for the RAF/Commonwealth with a Cockpit colour very similar/much the same as this chip RAF Cockpit Green chip The interior of the aircraft in Chromate Green (Apple Green Colour) It's not surprising to me that Bell would use "Bell Green" on undercart/interior colours and an RAF Cockpit Green in the cockpit - my personal choice would be the colour chip above. Hope that helps Regards Alan PS photos of Hudson interiors/P40E-1 Cockpit/Apple Green Chromate colours available on request It does Alan. I knew the British Purchasing Commission had stipulated cockpit colours on previous orders from US manufacturers, hence me asking the question. No one has yet provided definitive proof one way or another, so I reckon I can still go either RAF or US colours. Dave, Thanks for posting that pic. I had been googling looking for the colour shots but could not unearth them, any more? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 hours ago, pacificmustang said: It does Alan. I knew the British Purchasing Commission had stipulated cockpit colours on previous orders from US manufacturers, hence me asking the question. No one has yet provided definitive proof one way or another, so I reckon I can still go either RAF or US colours. Dave, Thanks for posting that pic. I had been googling looking for the colour shots but could not unearth them, any more? Bruce Color photo interpretation issues notwithstanding, and taking the time that 601 Sq had their Airacobras into account, could the grey seen in this photo be an example of the mixed grey that was used until adequate stocks of ocean grey were available? (Back in your can, worms!) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 hour ago, 72modeler said: Color photo interpretation issues notwithstanding, and taking the time that 601 Sq had their Airacobras into account, could the grey seen in this photo be an example of the mixed grey that was used until adequate stocks of ocean grey were available? (Back in your can, worms!) Mike Quite possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 1:53 AM, Calum said: Found this - doesn't really help but I figure I'll not answer the question http://www.axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13403 Thank You ,I found it useful even if no-one else did. and these photos prove that DFS was painted onto them before delivery to No.601 SQDN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 On 13/1/2017 at 09:20, tempestfan said: Straying a bit o/t, but did the ones in DFS have A roundels on the fuselage too, as repainted? C type came in May 1942 On 13/1/2017 at 16:01, 72modeler said: Color photo interpretation issues notwithstanding, and taking the time that 601 Sq had their Airacobras into account, could the grey seen in this photo be an example of the mixed grey that was used until adequate stocks of ocean grey were available? (Back in your can, worms!) Mike yes, mixed grey from http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/12-Tomahawk-Airacobra HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura11 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 On 13/01/2017 at 0:05 AM, pacificmustang said: I realise this may be one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, however.......... I am embarking on building the KH kit as a RAF Airacobra Mk1 Im going ro make the purely speculative assumption given the large production number and it was being overseen by the Purchasing Commission, RAF Grey Green was used for the cockpit and interior? Unless anyone has definitive information that normal bell colours were used. Also can anyone tell me if the nose mounted .50 machine guns were kept, or were these replaced by .303 weapons Bruce Hi Bruce, some years ago I built Bell P-39 in VVS, French and RAF markings. I am not an expert and the interiors were painted with US colours. For me was very useful this: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.h Hope that helps. Regards, Paolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 here is the correct link : http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/02/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura11 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Sorry, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Thanks all for your contributions. Ive convinced myself that the cockpit was indeed Bell green , and will proceed that way Cheers Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Hi Bruce On 17/01/2017 at 23:06, pacificmustang said: Thanks all for your contributions. Ive convinced myself that the cockpit was indeed Bell green , and will proceed that way Cheers Bruce then this will cheer you up http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?action=post;quote=19118;topic=1714.210;num_replies=224;sesc=bb1f192c11ce681ebe3bb0322e16d6ba Quote I just found interesting photos at http://sk16.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1439 of the discovery of the crashed VVS delivered from RAF.It is Airacobra I BX225 from 2 giap flown by E.A. Gridyushko.Interesting is original green-brown RAF camouflage scheme: see links http://sk16.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1313&mode=view http://sk16.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1316&mode=view cheers T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 PHEW!! When I first saw your notification Troy, I thought, "don't tell me Troy has found evidence it was grey green" as last night I just finished painting the interior a dark green!! Thanks Troy. That does indeed cheer me up Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Link to the new Sovietwarplanes site http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=1714.210 Cheers Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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