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Nutsabout

3D printing, anyone tried it?

35 posts in this topic

Has anyone used a 3D printer to produce accessories?  I could imagine they would be perfect for producing little bits and bobs such as jerry cans, ammo boxes etc.

My main concern before forking out on a printer would be getting hold of designs.

Any thoughts?

 

Ian..

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I would not be surprised if plans exist online for some items, I know my brother gets astuff (not model building) off My Mini Factory but there are other sites, have a look around I could ask my brother to trial print some bits if you find plans to work out quality and cost

 

Wayne 

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Thanks Wayne,

 

I was more wondering if any modelers have their own 3D printer rather than buying 3D printed parts off the internet.

As some printers are now priced in the low hundreds they are well within the range of the amateur.

 

Ian.. 

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The current printers with low prices lack the fineness required (or certainly liked) by modellers, at least in smaller scales, producing ridges and steps on what should be smooth shapes.  However they have taken over as the means of producing masters which are then improved for use by resin casters.  There are people working on just such small parts as you suggest, especially in the model railway hobby.  As for buying from the internet, the major source mentioned is Shapeways, which has an enormous catalogue, most of which (if not all) are the result of individuals.  However, these companies use much more expensive machines.

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I was considering buying one, considered FlashForge Creator Pro and Kossel Mini

 

http://www.flashforge.com/creator-pro-3d-printer/

https://www.think3dprint3d.com/Kossel-Mini-3dPrinter-Kit

 

Eventually I decided against buying it for myself as it is still pretty much magic, one needs to spend a great deal of time and walk all the way of trial and error until the results are satisfactory; definitely not worth the money if one is not dealing with it on day-to-day basis. 

At the moment it is easier and cheaper to submit your 3D design to the nearest 3D print shop - there are plenty around

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2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The current printers with low prices lack the fineness required (or certainly liked) by modellers, at least in smaller scales, producing ridges and steps on what should be smooth shapes.  However they have taken over as the means of producing masters which are then improved for use by resin casters.  There are people working on just such small parts as you suggest, especially in the model railway hobby.  As for buying from the internet, the major source mentioned is Shapeways, which has an enormous catalogue, most of which (if not all) are the result of individuals.  However, these companies use much more expensive machines.

Thanks Graham,

I suspected quality might be an issue with cheaper machines, like most things quality costs. 

 

2 hours ago, Pin said:

I was considering buying one, considered FlashForge Creator Pro and Kossel Mini

 

http://www.flashforge.com/creator-pro-3d-printer/

https://www.think3dprint3d.com/Kossel-Mini-3dPrinter-Kit

 

Eventually I decided against buying it for myself as it is still pretty much magic, one needs to spend a great deal of time and walk all the way of trial and error until the results are satisfactory; definitely not worth the money if one is not dealing with it on day-to-day basis. 

At the moment it is easier and cheaper to submit your 3D design to the nearest 3D print shop - there are plenty around

Thanks Pin,

I like the look of the FlashForge, but that might be because they photo'ed it next to a T-Rex :)

Have you ever submitted a design to a 3D print shop? If so how did you do your design & were you happy with the results?

 

Ian.. 

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Shapeways provide a free set of tutorials plus free software on how to produce a 3D design for them to print.  Link is HERE

 

Mike

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20 minutes ago, Nutsabout said:

Thanks Pin,

I like the look of the FlashForge, but that might be because they photo'ed it next to a T-Rex :)

Have you ever submitted a design to a 3D print shop? If so how did you do your design & were you happy with the results?

 

I have a friend who owns Kossel Mini, so I don't have to deal with publicly available providers

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15 minutes ago, bootneck said:

Shapeways provide a free set of tutorials plus free software on how to produce a 3D design for them to print.  Link is HERE

 

Mike

Thanks for the link Bootneck, will definitely watch when I get time. And have a go no doubt :D

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https://www.3dhubs.com/

 

The idea is - if you own a 3D printer you may register yourself as a "hub" and start taking orders. AirBnB or Uber of 3D printing world

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Cheers Pin

I don't have have a printer

 

Yet ;) Don't tell the missus.

 

Ian..

 

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I think they're still too low resolution for the kind of details we would like to have in modelling expecially on small scales but i have great hopes for the future, this technology will probably completely revolutionize the market. in 10 years time i would not be surprised if sprue kits will exists no more and instead you just go on tamiya website to download their 3d print file. 

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22 minutes ago, cambridge said:

I think they're still too low resolution for the kind of details we would like to have in modelling expecially on small scales

 

Your information is out of date

Below are a couple of pictures of RaResin engines in 1/72. As I know the masters were 3D printed and copied in resin without any manual finishing.

 

PJRR003.jpg

 

13131586_1015052301916430_57626568290419

 

13667789_1070450523043274_45705459251116

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Pin said:

 

Your information is out of date

Below are a couple of pictures of RaResin engines in 1/72. As I know the masters were 3D printed and copied in resin without any manual finishing.

 

PJRR003.jpg

 

13131586_1015052301916430_57626568290419

 

13667789_1070450523043274_45705459251116

 

 

 

are we talking about industrial/professional 3d printers as big as a motorbike or those 3d printers you can buy for your home and place on your desk?

I would definitely not be surprised if professional things had this kind of resolution, but if this is the quality you can obtain by those products you can buy at home for less than a 1000 bucks i definitely would have to update myself on the subject. But as far as i know they're still far from that. 

Edited by cambridge

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Any idea what printer they used? Those look nice. 

Edited by Thud4444
Cambridge beat me to post! Still a valid question.

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18 minutes ago, cambridge said:

 

are we talking about industrial/professional 3d printers as big as a motorbike or those 3d printers you can buy for your home and place on your desk?

I would definitely not be surprised if professional things had this kind of resolution, but if this is the quality you can obtain by those products you can buy at home for less than a 1000 bucks i definitely would have to update myself on the subject. But as far as i know they're still far from that. 

 

I've seen what can be printed on Kossel and FlashForge - it is not that far and definitely can be used for our purposes. But yes - I agree, it's a bit too early to have 3D device on your desk especially if you may print your design elsewhere for a reasonable money.

And I don't think we will be printing sprues - you still buy books although you have a laser printer at home, right?

 

17 minutes ago, Thud4444 said:

Any idea what printer they used? Those look nice. 

 

Envisiontech Prefactory 4 ( AFAIK ) - big as a motorbike and expensive. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Pin said:

 

I've seen what can be printed on Kossel and FlashForge - it is not that far and definitely can be used for our purposes. But yes - I agree, it's a bit too early to have 3D device on your desk especially if you may print your design elsewhere for a reasonable money.

 

well i'm quite confident we will have a reasonable level of detail in a reasonable time at a reasonable price, that's how the market works in the electronics. I remember the first kindle, the first mp3 player, the first laser printer, the first flat tv. they all costed a lot and they sucked. now they are as cheap as they can get and they're a 1000 times better than the first models. So i see actual 3d printers as prototipes and we'll see their true potential in around 5 years time i guess. 

 

Quote

And I don't think we will be printing sprues - you still buy books although you have a laser printer at home, right?

 

only half right. I used to buy CD DVD and books. Now if i can i buy ebooks to read on my tablet, and i buy cloud movies and cloud softwares.

No shipping time, or need to walk to the shop, no wasted space at home. if the same can be done with model kits, why not?

also, once you buy let's say a P-51 mustang CAD file, you can print it as many times as you want, basically you can buy P-51 once and than build as many variants of it as you can imagine at just the cost of printing material.

Possibly you can buy the 3d project and than you'll simply print it in the scale you prefer 1/72 1/16 1/35 or any custom scale you like. All at the price of one.  

And if you can use CAD you can draw and print the modifications you need without the need of homemade plasticard parts, photoetches and so on. Old school modeler will hate it, new school modeler will embrace it, as it happens for everything. 

 

only drawback i see is piracy can possibly kill the market, and you'll probably see free projects just as good as those you can pay. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Edited by cambridge
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I'd be interested to know why someone would make resin copies of a 3D printed part rather than print more copies. Is it because of the cost of 3D printing or because the material is easier to work with or more durable?

 

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19 minutes ago, Chimpion said:

I'd be interested to know why someone would make resin copies of a 3D printed part rather than print more copies. Is it because of the cost of 3D printing or because the material is easier to work with or more durable?

 


i think on a small scale production it's simply cheaper and faster. I guess it can take close to an hour to print a piece like that with 3d printing at that level of detail.

While once you have your mould you can make a resin copy in just a matter of seconds. 

Edited by cambridge
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One problem with extending this to downloading full kits is that aircraft kits have transparent parts, not to mention the common used of etched brass.  Getting a multi-media home printer is still some time way - multiple heads and multiple material stores anyone?  Getting one that'll print a smooth transparent part is another current problem.  

 

Electronics are getting cheaper - in one sense yes but a desktop computer or laptop will still cost you about the same amount in £/$ as they did some years back.  They'll be faster and better, but ...  This is partly because of the mechanical parts involved, and the one feature you can't get around with a 3D printer is the mechanical/material side.  There isn't all that much in the way of complex electronics to save money on.  Reduction in price is likely to (will) come from mass production, but this has limits.  I think a likelier use will be the appearance of more hubs such as Shapeways, perhaps on the high street itself, where you can take your software and have it produced on professional machines.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

One problem with extending this to downloading full kits is that aircraft kits have transparent parts, not to mention the common used of etched brass.  Getting a multi-media home printer is still some time way - multiple heads and multiple material stores anyone?  Getting one that'll print a smooth transparent part is another current problem.  

 

Electronics are getting cheaper - in one sense yes but a desktop computer or laptop will still cost you about the same amount in £/$ as they did some years back.  They'll be faster and better, but ...  This is partly because of the mechanical parts involved, and the one feature you can't get around with a 3D printer is the mechanical/material side.  There isn't all that much in the way of complex electronics to save money on.  Reduction in price is likely to (will) come from mass production, but this has limits.  I think a likelier use will be the appearance of more hubs such as Shapeways, perhaps on the high street itself, where you can take your software and have it produced on professional machines.

 

 

 

i'm not saying they will give them out for free. I'm saying that what you can buy now for 1000$ will probably cost 100$ in a couple of years time. and what you will pay 1000$ in two years time will make look useless what you would buy today.  It's a brand new market and it's in that phase where the price is going low fast, and the quality is going high fast.

It will reach a plateau in some years, that will be the real moment when to consider to buy a 3d printer.

Also there are different technologies under development, some uses wires, some uses powder, some uses resins, there's not yet a reliable standard out there. 

 

the see trough parts, yes those will probably be a problem. Well maybe we'll simply buy them as after market. or maybe they'll just find out a way to 3d print see trough materials. 

Edited by cambridge

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I still feel that you are applying an inappropriate pricing model based on the extreme case of electronics - it doesn't apply as the proportion of mechanical to electronic increases.  Aircraft didn't get any cheaper as their technology plateaued.  Or cars.  Or household appliances such as irons.  Every house has an iron - I don't see every house with a need for a 3D printer.  The market size will be the prime driver.  Yes you can do wonderful things with them, and they will only get better, and more visible in our hobby, but much the same could have been said about vacform machines in our hobby, and they didn't catch on. 

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50 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

I still feel that you are applying an inappropriate pricing model based on the extreme case of electronics - it doesn't apply as the proportion of mechanical to electronic increases.  Aircraft didn't get any cheaper as their technology plateaued.  Or cars.  Or household appliances such as irons.  Every house has an iron - I don't see every house with a need for a 3D printer.  The market size will be the prime driver.  Yes you can do wonderful things with them, and they will only get better, and more visible in our hobby, but much the same could have been said about vacform machines in our hobby, and they didn't catch on. 

 

3d printers belong to the realm of computers and electronics and i'm simply applying the economic model that works in that field, wich is a different thing from irons or cars. And vacuform has only a tiny field of applications, while with 3d printers you can print anything you like, from paperweight to key holders, to cups, to anything your fantasy produces.

i'm also considering 3d printers for consumers are already sold at around 1000$ or less. If and when more people will produce them on a larger scale the price will only go down for obvious reasons. And the quality will go up cause this technology is far from being mature. 

the only assumption i make is that they will end up on a wide consumer market, like paper printers or computers. That may or may not happen. Maybe people on average won't feel the necessity of that.  But if it happen i only see it going the way i presented it. If producers like Samsung and LG jumps on them and invest big on them there's a good chance it will happen. If only small producers like dremel do them it will probably not happen. 

Of course an important factor will also be their quality. what could be considered "good enough" for consumer may not be enough for modelling necessities, since we work with very small and highly detailed parts and very precise machines will of course cost more .

I guess we'll just have to wait and see but personally i'm confident in this kind of technology. 

Edited by cambridge

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I may disagree with that as electronic components of 3D printer are relatively simple and cheap indeed, whereas important parts - extruders, precision steppers etc. are getting cheaper much slower than I would like them to.

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7 minutes ago, Pin said:

I may disagree with that as electronic components of 3D printer are relatively simple and cheap indeed, whereas important parts - extruders, precision steppers etc. are getting cheaper much slower than I would like them to.

 

extruders, i have honestly no clue about them. I've also seen 3d printing done with laser/UV and powder plastic or something like that, that produced even better result, and that would not even require an extruder. here i think it was something like this one

 

we may end up like regular printers with different technologies around to chose from, like ink-jet and lasers. 

 

The rest of the parts i feel is what you can find on a regular printer. step motors, electronics and so on. and regular printers are as cheap as they can get.

Edited by cambridge

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