Using Acrylics.....

[mackem01]

I've only used this stuff once or twice for small jobs and have to say I was not really a fan. However seeing as how many of you guys are switching over to it,

I was debating if I should give it a retry. What is the colour selection like compared with enamels, what's the best way to prepare and use it, and what other

advantages are there? I must admit when I tried it I got very poor and uneven coverage so maybe I did something wrong.

[johnd]

Advantages are low odour and fast drying time.

 

My acrylic work has improved since the adoption of a few tips from BMers. The first was to use flow improver to reduce the chance of brush marks. The pain should be well thinned and preferably applied over primer. A number of thin coats are better than a few thick ones.

 

Actually, its quick-drying property can sometimes be a disadvantage, for instance when covering a large area. You can end up painting over paint that has already started to dry, producing drag marks. In this case, add a few drops of acrylic retarder to give a little more working time.

 

These comments apply to good old brush painting.

 

Hope that helps,

John.

[Mike]

IMHO, Acrylics come into their own when used with an airbrush, but as I paint almost exclusively with an airbrush, I can't speak for the brush-painting community, so I won't  

• Don't treat painted acrylics like enamel.  They're nowhere near as tough after application, but they dry very quickly, so you can proceed with the next step much more quickly than with enamels.
• Acrylics fare better with a good primer, and can be more susceptible to oils and grease on the painting surface than enamels, due to their base. 
• Don't think of them as non-toxic, but as less toxic as there are still some fairly unpleasant compounds in them, it's just that when wet they usually dilute with water, even though they're often latex or Isopropanol based.  I can recommend Ultimate Thinners for pretty much every brand of acrylics, and experiment with proportions, using their helpful guide as... well, a guide! 
• Try not to handle fresh paint too much, and if you're going to have to, put a barrier coat of clear gloss over it as a safeguard.
• Use masking with a soft adhesive, such as Tamiya tape, or some other paper "kabuki" tape, and peel the tape off back over itself to minimise the chances of it lifting the paint. Don't use liquid mask over acrylic paint, as most of them contain ammonia, which will eat your paint.  If you feel the need to use it however, do a test first to confirm whether you're asking for trouble and a re-paint.
• Remove acrylic paint with oven cleaner such as Mr Muscle, or small areas (like a cockpit, or similar) by dumping the parts in a pot of IPA, and placing that in an ultrasonic cleaner for a bit if you can.  Then lift the remaining paint by scrubbing with a stiff bristled brush or toothbrush.
• Cleaning acrylics off your hands is easy when wet, as it'll come off in water.  When it's dry, it's a bit more grabby, but I've found that Dettol Cleaning Surface Wipes are pretty good are removing it from hands and your cutting mat.

That's about all I can think of for now.

[Greenshirt]

You should scroll through this sub-topic and read many of the threads on acrylics. They mostly discuss issues, pros and cons of the different brands and how to correct for them. 

 

Acrylics are just as "good" as enamels, but in the end, to each his own. Not everyone likes them and some enamel users who've tried acrylics swear they are rubbish. I started with enamels 50 years ago and transitioned to acrylics over a 20 year period as my enamels were used up. 

 

Quote

What is the colour selection like compared with enamels

 

Nearly limitless, depending on your needs and the availability of a particular paint line. Google Vallejo Model Color and Model Air; Testers Model Master Acryl, Humbrol, Mr Color, Tamiya, LifeColor and Xtracrylics for starters and view the photos. Many will have their color charts. You don't indicate your location, or what acrylics you have available.

 

Quote

 what's the best way to prepare and use it

 

Clean the plastic, prime it with either a rattle can primer like Tamiya or Halfords Grey plastic primer. Rub the primed surface down to get it smooth, then wipe it with IPA (not the beer!) and then paint it. Do you plan to use a hairy stick, or an airbrush?  It makes a difference in the response to your "use" question. 

 

Quote

 what other advantages are there? 

 

Water cleanup, to a point. Less toxic fumes, less "smelly". Quick drying. The cons you've experienced. 

 

I'll add that generally there are two types of acrylics: water based, and solvent based. Prep, use, cleanup, coverage and resiliency are different for both, but comparable results can be achieved with some experience and patience. 

 

I recommend you browse this sub-topic, then let us know how you plan to use the paint (brush or airbrush), and what paints you can get easily (or your country).  Also you'll be able to ask more detailed questions, allowing us to give you pertinent responses. 

[sapperastro]

I use both paint types.

 

Enamels: Seriously, unless it is a buggered tin of Humbrol, I have ALWAYS gotten great results with enamel. Full stop. Whether I am brush painting or spraying, they cover brilliantly, are easily thinned with white spirit (mineral turps over here) or 'enamel thinner' of your preferred brand. They usually don't dry straight away, so blending and reworking paint is easy, and I never get any brush strokes or adherence problems either. This goes for Colourcoats, older Humbrol and Tamiya enamel. I haven't tried other enamel brands for a long time.

 

The downside is the smell. The paints themselves aren't really bad, but the jars of mineral turps...well, I don't mind them, but others may object, and I can only really break them out on the kitchen table when the family is all asleep, otherwise it is off to the hobby lair (garage). And while they spray brilliantly, and never clog your airbrush (well, I have never had a single issue yet), they stink pretty bad. A respirator and a booth with an extractor fan are very good ideas. Perhaps necessary ideas.

 

Drying time is a mixed bag. Enamels usually dry slower...but cure quicker. So while enamel can take hours to be touch dry, it should be entirely, and totally cured within 7-8 days climate pending. Acrylics are really only completely, fully cured after about 18-20 days climate pending, but are touch dry after a half hour. No biggie, but again, I don't mind the slower drying time for enamels. Both are pretty hard when fully cured.

 

As for colour range; brilliant for military applications. doable for any other application.

 

Acrylics I have found to be a mixed bag, but this is because there are so many brands out there, and all of them seem to have their own behaviours.

 

With proper thinning, and application of acrylic thinners, flow improver, retarder and/or dishwashing liquid, they can pull off an excellent impersonation of a quality enamel paint. I have managed to get brilliant results with a few brands, though all of them require some form of additives or mucking about to get the best from them. This goes for both brushing and spraying. Different brands also have different bases; some, like tamiya, are an alcohol base, others like testors acrylic seems to be ammonia based, while Revell aqua is...uh...aqua based (water). Some can use the same thinners or water with a dash of dish washing liquid, others really do best with proprietary thinners (tamiya and gunze aqueous), and this can also throw people off that don't know their paints. Also, if you are a lazy modeller, bear in mind that acrylics really need some form of primer or good adherence undercoat (enamel? ;)) to stick to the plastic, and a good washing of the kit parts beforehand is even more necessary when using acrylics.

 

The lack of odor (brand pending) is a big plus and one I do appreciate (even though I strangely like the smell of some enamel brands) for the lack of bad commentary from the other half. And most clean up in water...usually.

 

Why usually? Because they can be a BITCH to clean out of brushes or airbrushes if you leave them too long! (which sometimes isn't very long at all). When brushing acrylics, clean out your brush every 5-10 minutes at least, otherwise you will find your expensive toys being clogged up and requiring some hard stuff to get the gunk out, which does no good to your hairy sticks. Same goes for airbrushes. Don't sit around admiring your handywork, clean that thing out fast, or it can be a bugger getting any dried out paint off the innards. You can get away with a touch of laziness when airbrushing enamels (apart from the Darth Vader mask requirement), but not so with acrylics.

 

With the massive amount of brands out there, catering for many, many different tastes (gaming, historical modelling, arts and craft, etc) the sky is the limit in regards to colours for Acrylics. If you cannot find the right colour, for anything, using acrylics, you aren't looking hard enough.

 

Anyway, I hope you have some fun trying them out. I myself enjoy both paints, but would be seriously upset if enamels ever went extinct, so that should tell you which side of the fence I prefer.

 

Good luck!

 

Oops. Didn't read your question properly. You already use enamel and are curious about acrylics. If you say what brand you are looking at, or how you wish to use them, I will try to help you. Otherwise there are that many different ways of paints 'Acrylics' that it is almost impossible to zero in and answer you specifically.

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by sapperastro

[mackem01]

Thanks Gents, there are many interesting pointers in your replies. As my modelling turn out precludes the use of an airbrush I will be using the hairy stick procedure (but may try some rattle cans if available). Living in the UK so getting hold of them is not a problem. Think I'll buy a couple of colours for experimantal purposes.

 

Thanks for the info.......much appreciated.

[Steve Noble]

I've tried most of the popular brands of acrylic paint. Tamiya, Gunze, Revell, Lifecolor etc, the list goes on. They all spray well enough, but some just don't brush well at all. The least successful for me at least is Tamiya. Terrible to hand brush. Best I've ever used for hand painting is Vallejo Model Colour. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Steve Noble

[sapperastro]

Ok, brushing;

 

Vallejo model colour is pretty good, but needs primer or undercoat. Handle the painted model as little as possible until cured and varnished. The vallejo thinner is quite good, but demineralised water does work. Italeri is rebranded vallejo so same rules apply.

 

Revell aqua is also good for brush painting, and is tougher than Vallejo with better adherence, but the colour range is very limited.

 

I wouldn't bother trying any other acrylic for brush painting unless you desperately need a colour or know exactly how to handle each brand.

[mackem01]

Wow, this acrylic malarkey is a whole new ball game! I think I'll give it a go on an F.A.A. subject - edsg/sky - so I don't have to use too many colours. I really appreciate all your advice guys, especially Sapperastro, but I'm now left wondering if it's worth the hassle and cost of changing.........Hmmm.

[LaurieS]

With Acrylics probably the most important one is the primer. The Vallejo and other such primers were pretty good but

they do not stick well. If you are going to use tape over acrylics then at some point you are going to strip the paint to the plastic.

 

But help is at hand. A Saviour. Stynylrez primer by Badger. It is a revelation as it sticks hard. It is thin and does not clog

panel lines. It dries quickly and you can overcoat in two hours. In two hours you can sand/fill. It sands to a very fine

edge undetectable when over painted.Other acrylic primers take 24 hours at least plus even then they can rub off in a tear.

So far not had  Stynylerez primer fail.

 

But do not take any chances as any primer is reliant on a hook onto the plastic. Wash the plastic and abrade with a

1000/1500 wet and dry in wet mode.

 

Some one has mentioned Flow Improver (Vallejo). This ensures that the acrylic paint flows well through the airbrush.

Most if not all acrylics are forgiving and will flatten out even if over sprayed in places. Vallejo Air is all non toxic and

certificates of testing are available. But the paint contains very fine ground grains which you do not want in the nose or lungs

Vallejo Model have a number of paints, especially around the yellows, which are very toxic. So best in all case to use a nose

filter.

 

Laurie

[cruiserguy]

Hi Laurie,

 

Just read your reply to this. Are you sure Vallejo paint contains toxic components? I've always assumed they were non-toxic.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Will.

[LaurieS]

21 minutes ago, cruiserguy said:

Hi Laurie,

 

Just read your reply to this. Are you sure Vallejo paint contains toxic components? I've always assumed they were non-toxic.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Will.

 

Hi Will.

 

I looked at the certificates (USA testing) and all the Vallejo Model Air are NON toxic.

 

But a number of the Vallejo Model are toxic. For instance Yellow is a problem there are probably others.

The toxic Yellows contain Cadmium which is a a highly toxic metal. Looked it up and causes breathing

problems including bleeding and as it finishes in the article "death"  .

 

However to reassure the toxic ones have a label which tells you not to spray. It is a strange label as its

say no health label required and then goes on to tell you not to spray as it contains Cadmium.

 

For a bit of Sunday afternoon reading

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/security

 

Laurie

[cruiserguy]

Laurie

 

Wow! That's a real surprise for me.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Will.

[LaurieS]

On 13/01/2017 at 15:34, cruiserguy said:

Hi Laurie,

 

Just read your reply to this. Are you sure Vallejo paint contains toxic components? I've always assumed they were non-toxic.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Will.

 

Will this is a question answer by Vallejo.

 

Laurie

 

5.12. Model Air is manufactured especially for airbrushing. Do I need to wear a mask when I use the product?

Model Air contains no harmful pigments, but wearing a mask when airbrushing is always a good idea. Anything foreign in the air we breathe, be it dust or pollen, is best not inhaled, and pigment particles, even if not toxic, are still foreign matter.

 

2.11. I just purchased some bottles of Model Color, and on two of them the label says: Do not spray. The other bottles do not have this advice. Is this an omission? Should this be on all the Model Color bottles?

No, this phrase or a pictogram of an airbrush crossed out, is printed only on some labels in compliance with California Proposition 65, which requires this instruction for all colors which may contain a trace of Cadmium. A total of 38 of the 180 colors of the Model Color line carry this advice ; for more information please see 15. Health and Safety, also see our web page www.acrylicosvallejo.com under Health and Safety and Pigment content per color

 

 

[cruiserguy]

Hi Laurie

 

Thanks again, I've a fair stock of ModelColor, and use it for airbrushing. I'll have to check them and see what I can and can't use.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Will.

[ABeck]

Currentlly discussed in Germany:

 

http://www.simplegreen.co.uk/

 

Can be used as thinner in acetone based AND in ammoniac based acrylics.

 

HTH

 

Andreas Beck

[colin]

aha but which simple green as you link shows a few

[Steve Noble]

I always use the same thinner as the paint as I feel it's designed from the start to go with that paint. Using other products to clean brushes or airbrushes after use is fine. But for thinning the paint the proper dedicated thinner usually works best for me. If you buy a decent sized bottle and use it for thinning only it lasts a long time. Just my thoughts, but never skimp on paint or thinners. You only get out what you put in.

[ABeck]

After a telcall with the German distributor from yesterday he recommended the "Chrystal" version  which has no colour/smell ingredients . The fluid is water based, has a very small potion of alcohol (isopropanal) and consists mainly of tensides which have an emulsifying effect and will not harm the acrylic bounding carrier, will aviod agglomeration of the pigments and will not harm the carrier fluid (acetone/ammoniac).

[LaurieS]

2 hours ago, Steve Noble said:

I always use the same thinner as the paint as I feel it's designed from the start to go with that paint. Using other products to clean brushes or airbrushes after use is fine. But for thinning the paint the proper dedicated thinner usually works best for me. If you buy a decent sized bottle and use it for thinning only it lasts a long time. Just my thoughts, but never skimp on paint or thinners. You only get out what you put in.

 

Agree Steve. The manufacturers use for thinners usually the same fluid in their paints. A good thinner will not dilute

the drying and leveling out ability of the paint.

Also think it best to use the cleaning product marketed by the paint manufacturer.

 

A lot of time is spent in preparation before painting seems daft to me to hazard all that work.

 

Laurie

[avro683]

I use acrylics exclusively now. As a hairy stick and airbrush user, I agree that Tamiya can be difficult to hand brush but I have found that thinning it a bit too much is actually advantageous, especially when using metallic colours.