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new-tool 1/72 Airfix B-25C/D...yeehaw!


72modeler

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Have you all seen this announcement? Be still, my beating heart! If the kit is anything like the CAD illustrations, it's going to  be a BIG seller! Positionable  flaps and bomb bay!

The possibilities for a B-25B are there- just need different cowlings/exhausts/guns...can you say Doolittle Raider? Can't wait for this one! Thumbs up, Airfix!

 

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=24079

 

Mike

 

If it's any consolation, I was hoping for a Beaufort, Hornet, or Whirlwind!

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Will be ok for B, C and early D and early G but will need to modify fuselage for late D or G with waist gun positions and Tail gun position and remove lower turret.

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9 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Have you all seen this announcement?

 

 

We've all been discussing it for weeks in the usual place for pre-release kit discussions. If you don't look in Rumourmonger every so often you are seriously missing out.

 

Edited by Work In Progress
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7 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

 

We've all been discussing it for weeks in the usual place for pre-release kit discussions. If you don't look in Rumourmonger every so often you are seriously missing out.

 

WIP,

 

Sorry! Don't know why, but I keep forgetting about checking that section of the forum- I apologize for the redundancy! Thanks for pointing this out; I promise to try to do better in the future.

 

Mike

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Obviously this question can't be fully answered until the plastic is in someone's hands but is it likely to be too much work to model this as an RAF Mitchell Mk II? I'm developing a bit of a thing for American aircraft in RAF markings but my lack of knowledge and resources does hinder me somewhat.

 

Cheers

 

DC

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6 minutes ago, DaveCromie said:

Obviously this question can't be fully answered until the plastic is in someone's hands but is it likely to be too much work to model this as an RAF Mitchell Mk II? I'm developing a bit of a thing for American aircraft in RAF markings but my lack of knowledge and resources does hinder me somewhat.

 

Cheers

 

DC

I'm no expert on the B-25 but I think the Mitchell II was basically a C/D wasn't it? If that is the case it should be a simple job and possibly Airfix will release an RAF version at some point too.

 

Duncan B

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DC and Dave,

 

First off, the Mitchell II was basically a B-25C/D, depending upon where it was built- C's were made in California and D's in Kansas. Records show 167 B-25C and 371 B-25D Mitchell II's were supplied to the RAF, but I don't have the serials.

 

Photos and written references for B-25's prior to the H/J that are wartime or original are hard to find, and as we all know, you can't go by restored airframes, no matter how well done- besides I would imagine armor plate would have been removed because it is no longer necessary and would reduce all-up weight- some restorations do use replica armor plate made from lighter materials, but very seldom. Looking at my B-25 references, including Detail in Scale, and B-25, An Intimate View, I couldn't find any photos that showed where the armor plate was attached in either the bombardier's, navigator's, or pilot's compartments. Best I could find was a written description that  145 lbs. of armor plate was installed at the back of the bombardier's and pilot's and co-pilot's seats, but no mention if this was attached to the bulkheads at the rear of the nose and cockpit, or attached to the seats. I seem to recall those two bulkheads having armor plate, but don't remember where I read that. There was also a written reference that external armor plate was installed in the LH side from the nose to the back of the pilot's side, but no mention of variant- I'm betting that was on the versions after the C/D. If I find better information, I will re-post. Sorry! (The Wolf B-25 book has incredible minute description/diagrams/photos of every aspect of the B-25, but very little coverage of the interior sections and the armor plating, with the exception of the dorsal and tail turrets.)

 

Mike

 

BTW, the single flexible .30cal nose gun was not replaced by one fixed and one flexible ,50cal until the B-25C-5 version.

 

 

Just found some photos that clearly show armor plate attached to the backs of the pilot and co-pilot seats, covers the bottom 2/3 of each seatback, rectangular in shape. Armor plate in the bombardier's compartment would have to be attached to the bulkhead behind the seat, I would think, because the seat was a metal fixed bucket located to the RH side of the centerline, with a padded headrest attached to the bulkhead, so no other place for it to go, methinks. Best I can come up with at the present- sorry!

Edited by 72modeler
added new reference material
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One thing that usually gets missed in discussions of backdating a B-25C/D to a B-model is the carburetor intakes, which were noticeably smaller on the B.

 

I'm really looking forward to this one.  The old Monogram Snap-Tite kit is the only accurately shaped early B-25 in 1/72, but it requires a fair bit of work to bring "up to snuff."  Meanwhile the Italeri B-25 always looked more like caricatures of the real thing.

 

SN

Edited by Steve N
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Steve N,

You are correct about the carburetor intakes; the B version intakes were shorter and more narrow; The C and subsequent versions used an intake that was noticeably wider and slightly curved to follow the upper  contour of the cowling. (Might be associated with the switch to Holley carburetors and air filters.)  There is also another version seen in photos that is much taller and boxy in shape, but I think they might be very late production or postwar mods, as I wasn't able to find any photos that showed them on a WW2 Mitchel or written reference - I could very well be wrong on that, though.

 

Dalea,

I was able to find some more written description of the armor plate fitted to B-25A/B/C/D versions. it's pretty wordy, but if you would like, you could send me a PM and I'll send you the text. Basically there was a change in the seat armor shape for the pilot/copilot as well as for the bombardier from the A to the D.

 

Mike

 

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6 hours ago, DaveCromie said:

Obviously this question can't be fully answered until the plastic is in someone's hands but is it likely to be too much work to model this as an RAF Mitchell Mk II? I'm developing a bit of a thing for American aircraft in RAF markings but my lack of knowledge and resources does hinder me somewhat.

 

Cheers

 

DC

Dave the majority of Mitchell II's operated by the RAF were just as the model is depicted, RAF Mitchell II's ran a single .50 in the nose in the ball mount, removed the fixed .50 in the R/H lower nose and had just the upper turret and retained the lower turret, RAF Mitchell's retained the lower turret long after most US units removed it as they considered it useless, the RAF operated the Mitchell in the medium altitude day medium bomber role the whole time, hence keeping the lower turret, later "D" models which came with no lower turret and waist positions and a tail position , the RAF removed the fixed cheek guns and fixed nose guns from these and usually didn't man the tail position, later Mitchell III's (J's) also had all fixed fwd firing guns removed in RAF service.

I'm the opposite I like the RAAF and US Pacific C/D's with up to 13 X.50's fitted in the low level and strafer role.

 

Edited by Sydhuey
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On 1/6/2017 at 8:22 PM, 72modeler said:

Have you all seen this announcement? Be still, my beating heart! If the kit is anything like the CAD illustrations, it's going to  be a BIG seller! Positionable  flaps and bomb bay!

The possibilities for a B-25B are there- just need different cowlings/exhausts/guns...can you say Doolittle Raider? Can't wait for this one! Thumbs up, Airfix!

 

I am guessing that Airfix would at some point release a B-25B kit, but for those would want one sooner or later, there is always the Quickboost B-25B resin engines and cowlings set that they have for the Italeri kit.  My guess would be that it should be compatible.

 

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Andre- you beat me to it; I found my Mitchell serial list, but you were too  quick off the starting line!

 

Wm- Guess we won't know for sure about a possible B-25B boxing until we get a chance to see the actual plastic to see how the kit is engineered. The B model intakes were more narrow than the C/D ones, so if they were going to  make both variants possible, I would think Airfix would have to make the carb intakes as separate parts to be added to the nacelles, but again, we will have to see. Another issue is the exhaust configuration, as the B and I think early C's had a single stack on the outboard side of each nacelle, and one is longer than the other, if memory serves. There was also another style that was fitted between the single stack configuration and the final multiple stack 'Clayton' exhausts- it is described in the Wolf book, and had groups of exhausts siamesed  together- it reminded me of one of the A-20 exhaust variations. IIRC. Easy to  do if the kit is engineered for these options, and separate cowlings takes care of the multiple stack versions, or the stacks can be sanded off for the earlier variants, but I am going to keep my yap shut until I can lay my hands on the actual bits. (Bottom line- I'm not getting rid of my unbuilt Monogram snap tite B-25B just yet!)

 

No matter what, Airfix is to be congratulated for an early Mitchell, no matter what other versions they might or might not release; I, for one, will be snagging at least two...betting the first batch gets sold out immediately!

 

It would be smart of QB, I would think, if the Airfix moldings don't look like a B model is in the offing, to take their early version resin cowlings and R-2600 engines and add single exhausts and proper carb intakes to model a B.

 

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
added missing word for clarity
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On 1/7/2017 at 9:00 PM, 72modeler said:

 There is also another version seen in photos that is much taller and boxy in shape, but I think they might be very late production or postwar mods, as I wasn't able to find any photos that showed them on a WW2 Mitchel or written reference - I could very well be wrong on that, though.
 

 

That was part of the postwar "Hayes Modification" package, which was a program most B-25s still operational with USAF went through in the 1950s.  It also included replacing the upper individual exhaust stacks with a collector ring to reduce noise, and the removal of all armament. 

 

SN

Edited by Steve N
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Just now, Steve N said:

 

That was part of the postwar "Hayes Modification" package, which was a program most B-25s still operational with USAF went through in the 1950s.  It also included replacing the upper individual exhaust stacks with a collector ring to reduce noise, and the removal of all armament. 

 

SN

Thanks, Steve; that makes sense, as a lot of the airworthy B-25's I have seen in photos or at airshows  have that carb intake configuration. None of my references showed that intake on a WW2 B-25. 'Preciate the rapid reply!

 

Mike

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If the Airfix kit designers are smart, they will look carefully at the Accurate Miniatures 1/48 B-25. The B and C/D boxings had the appropriately different carb intake and exhaust configurations.

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