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Delage 15-S-8 Grand Prix (1/8)


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On 4/1/2018 at 6:33 PM, hendie said:

Nice CAD work Roy.  I tried Fusion 360 and a few other free softwares but I've been using SolidWorks for so many years I found it difficult to get out of that mindset.

You seem to be coming to grips with it remarkably well.

In a way I guess I'm lucky that I'm not used to any method / software mindset. If at one point in time you want to try again, there are some videos that set out the differences between the two suites, to massage that mindset away... 

 

I'll have to take a closer look at the recent developments in your own topic, it's one of the few remaining topics that I haven't read up recently. 

On 4/1/2018 at 8:06 PM, harveyb258 said:

I honestly don't know, Roy. It may well be that way, it's just so hard to tell, from the rear-view pic...even in high res.

I know, it's a shame the picture isn't any clear. My best guess would be that the rear would have the same construction, as we know of 3/4 of chassis ends on these cars to have such. 

On 4/2/2018 at 1:12 AM, Codger said:

Your ability to discern spatial relationships, even before the software illustrates it, is remarkable.

Unfortunately it's less spectacular and more time-consuming than that. I'll print several photos and will measure / calculate the spatial relationships by using caliper, calculator and notebook. In fact I don't trust myself at all to try to visually discern any of the spatial relationships. It's all a matter of time-consuming but satisfying checks / rechecks. 

22 hours ago, NickD said:

You've really made Great progress in the last month. Every post re-enforces that Fusion is the right tool doesn't it.

I really think Fusion 360 is exactly the right tool, for me, to do this. It doesn't have the steep learning curve as Blender does and from what I read it may be just as powerful. 

 

 

Yesterday I received the two last dimensions from Revs; now theoretically I should be able to make a pretty accurate drawing of the car. Unfortunately progress will be slow the next couple of weeks, due to busier work (as a lawyer sometimes there are a more cases, sometimes fewer... right now there's a lot of stuff going on). After things will have eased down a bit I'll reprise my work and this topic. Meanwhile I've been thinking of ways to make it more attractive and comprehensible. I'll come back on that. 

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Roy

 I'm not sure if you have seen it, but there is a little historical information in the book "Mostly Motor Racing" by A.F. Rivers Fletcher (Haynes 1986, ISBN0-85429-461-9).

It mentions him being riding mechanic for Campbell in 1928 at the age of 16 ( Campbell needed someone small to fit in the cockpit) at the JCC spring meeting at Brooklands in one of the two Campbell Delages ( the ex Benoist car) (pp39-46).  Then racing on the sand at Southport (Leo Villa was horrified at the condition of the car afterwards: p51).  Also the sale of the car to Lord Howe (who had a Brooklands outer circuit record with it) and Howe's subsequent purchase of the Chiron car and the ex Scott/Davis car (pp103-105).

 

There are also a couple of pictures in Leo Villa's book "Life with the Speed King" (MHB Ltd 1979, ISBN 0906116 06 6)

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Jo NZ thank you for the reference, that is very interesting information. I might be able to use that information for the new project you'll see below, in which case I'll certainly order one specimen of the Rivers Fletcher book. I might want Villa's book anyway as I love pictures from that era. 

 

 

On the 3rd of April I mentioned that I've been thinking about ways to make this topic more interesting, informative and comprehensible. Here is the result... or at least its start: 

 

 

For those who cannot see the embedded video, please click here

 

I much hope you'll like it. If you want please show your appreciation by clicking 'subscribe', in the lower right corner. I'll try to lure as many followers / subscribers as I can :D. Making this video is quite a bit step for me so you can imagine I'm very curious about your reactions! 

Edited by Roy vd M.
Error in video corrected
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On 4/8/2018 at 12:55, Jo NZ said:

Roy

 I'm not sure if you have seen it, but there is a little historical information in the book "Mostly Motor Racing" by A.F. Rivers Fletcher (Haynes 1986, ISBN0-85429-461-9).

It mentions him being riding mechanic for Campbell in 1928 at the age of 16 ( Campbell needed someone small to fit in the cockpit) at the JCC spring meeting at Brooklands in one of the two Campbell Delages ( the ex Benoist car) (pp39-46).  Then racing on the sand at Southport (Leo Villa was horrified at the condition of the car afterwards: p51).  Also the sale of the car to Lord Howe (who had a Brooklands outer circuit record with it) and Howe's subsequent purchase of the Chiron car and the ex Scott/Davis car (pp103-105).

 

There are also a couple of pictures in Leo Villa's book "Life with the Speed King" (MHB Ltd 1979, ISBN 0906116 06 6)

Having seen the video took me back to my library. There is a quite comprehensive account of Benoist's racing and  wartime underground activities in "The Grand Prix Saboteurs" by Joe Saward. Morienval Press 2006, ISBN 978-0-9554868-0-7.

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THIS PROJECT WILL GO VIRAL!!!!!!! It has to!!! Not only in Roy's machine and modelling skills, but in his thoroughness and descriptiveness in a non-native tongue is second to none.

 

I'm here for the long-haul.......this WILL BE EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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On 4/19/2018 at 12:39 AM, harveyb258 said:

I like it very much, Roy!!! I'm subscribed..... Nice to meet you my friend!:D 

And nice to meet you, finally we see each other in person... or... wait. Now it's your turn! :D

 

In all seriousness thank you for following this! 

On 4/19/2018 at 2:36 AM, Jo NZ said:

Having seen the video took me back to my library. There is a quite comprehensive account of Benoist's racing and  wartime underground activities in "The Grand Prix Saboteurs" by Joe Saward. Morienval Press 2006, ISBN 978-0-9554868-0-7.

Thank you once more! It seems that's a must-buy too. Of course Wikipedia provides an overview of what had happened, as well as Daniel Cabart's book on the Delage, but the book you recommend seems to go much more in-depth. I salute you for these great contributions to this thread. 

On 4/19/2018 at 6:23 PM, Hannes said:

I´m subscribed as well !  Hannes

Thanks Hannes, every new subscriber brings a smile to my face, especially one from the Fiat research team that I feel still exists and will never be truly disbanded. What a hectic time that was, more than a year ago, what interesting things we discovered and how we are currently all doing what we enjoy doing... but still bonded by those intensive communications we once had to which I look back with joy and pride. 

On 4/20/2018 at 12:09 AM, sharknose156 said:

subscribed ! excellent idea 

Thank you Sam for the subscription. All I wrote to Hannes equally applies to you and the other members of the team.

On 4/20/2018 at 4:24 PM, CrazyCrank said:

Excellent idea, and excellent introduction to a great enormous big job to go...I"m subscribed too ^_^

Thierry you are right, it's a huge job. But now that I've been spending so much time and energy on it I guess it's a keeper. It is and always will remain a beautiful car with a rich history that's going to be a lot of fun trying to replicate. In my opinion it is a challenge within the boundaries of what's possible. 

On 4/20/2018 at 10:08 PM, harveyb258 said:

THIS PROJECT WILL GO VIRAL!!!!!!! It has to!!! Not only in Roy's machine and modelling skills, but in his thoroughness and descriptiveness in a non-native tongue is second to none.

 

I'm here for the long-haul.......this WILL BE EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whether it will go viral will probably have everything to do with how many errors I'm going to make and how entertaining they will be. First error in the video was a nice example... at 2:35 I clumsily showed a picture of Kay Petre behind the wheel of an..... Austin. Fortunately I was notified by a friend much more knowledgable than me, so a new video was made. I'll show it below. 

On 4/21/2018 at 10:12 AM, JeroenS said:

I'm in too. Roy, I think your video editing is Discovery Channel worthy, as is the subject!

Thanks for that Jeroen. I never edited a Youtube-video before so I could try to stimulate the thought that I'm a natural talent... but alas I'm farthest from that. Sadly, this video took me so... many... hours to make. I spent about two weeks thinking about it, designing its table of contents and then creating it. On the bright side I always realised that this was probably going to be the most difficult clip of the bunch. There are some 70 video fragments, animations, photos and sounds combined into those 3,5 minutes. But as I hoped, the second video turned out to be much, much easier to make. I felt a bit more comfortable in front of the camera and it's a much simpler concept overall. I simply wanted to show the ab-so-lu-te basics of Fusion 360 modelling. In about 2,5 minutes I'll model a simple bolt, while showing how very easy that is. Not quite finished yet... I hope to be able to upload it in two days. 

 

 

Here is the updated video. For those who have already seen the first video, the only thing changed is the photo at 2:35. Same Kay Petre but now, in fact, behind the wheel of a Delage :D 

 

 

For those who cannot see the embedded video, please click here

 

Hopefully you're not seeing Dutch subtitles. If you see them, please let me know. You can click on 'subtitles' to make them disappear. 

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Very impressive !  Although I will keep my old-fashioned low tech proceeding of modelling I must admit that this is the future  and I greatly appreciate it .

A wonderful start of a series of scientific work !  Many greetings !  Hannes

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17 hours ago, mustang1989 said:

I'm liking this thread...............ALOT! (...) Cool stuff man.

 

17 hours ago, harveyb258 said:

Consider that a BIG :thumbsup:  from me, Roy!!!

 

2 hours ago, Hannes said:

Very impressive ! (...) A wonderful start of a series of scientific work !  Many greetings !  Hannes

 

Thanks guys, your comments really bring a smile to my face! 

 

There's a fella doing this same thing with an SBD Dauntless over at Fine Scale Modeler.

 

@mustang1989 I think you mean Witold Jaworski. He also maintains a thread here at Britmodeller, see here for his last post. 

 

Actually his work is much more ambitious than mine. Witold intends to create a lifelike virtual model... if any part can function (rotate or move for example) he will make it do so. For Witold, the 3D model is the end station. He won't use the model as a basis for scale modelling. Another difference is that Witold uses Blender, a more complex CAD suite than Fusion 360. I can only have lots of admiration for Witold's work to which I was introduced by @NickD who does Blender magic as well, although his modesty won't allow him to admit that.

 

Although I will keep my old-fashioned low tech proceeding of modelling I must admit that this is the future  and I greatly appreciate it .

 

I must admit that I have the same philosophy, basically. For example I won't use 3D printing although I'll be able to, after making the virtual model. I also won't use CNC because I really want to turn those lathe and mill handwheels myself. This CAD thing is a must, for me, because no 2D drawings of the Delage 15-S-8 have survived. If they had and if I had a copy I would have started the build process a year ago. But now I'll first have to establish the shape of the car before I can model it to scale. It's a lot of fun though! 

 

 

Someone told me he liked to watch the video but wouldn't be able to really remember what he saw in it. I suggested him to experience it as if it were a book: you don't have to remember anything but you can use it to pass time more or less pleasantly. Meanwhile one might pick up a thing or two. 

 

I also told him the only reason to really remember the things I show (except for those who really want to start working with Fusion 360) is that after the tenth video I'll put up a quiz in which ten questions will be asked to which the answers can be found in each of the ten videos. It's convenient to know the answers without having to watch the videos again. I'll link to each video at each respective question though. 

 

As an example, the question regarding the second video will be: 

 

"What two-dimensional shape has to be sketched to allow you to extrude a three-dimensional cylinder*?" 

 

Especially for those who watched the video that question doesn't seem to be too difficult, but not knowing is easier than knowing. The winner of the quiz will be sent a unique price that in my view is worth the effort. But all that in due time. 

* Yes that's a pleonasm, sorry ;)

 

 

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Hi all,

 

Thought I'd better respond to Roys kind words.

 

As he says Blender is an alternative. Withold's work is a fantastic example of what can be achieved.

 

It's limitiations are very well highlighted by the bolt example Roy chose

Picture1

 

Here is my example. A bolt without a thread takes about 5 mins if you know what you're doing. It is probably much longer than than if you are not used to the tool. Certainly some tricks are required to generate it quickly.

 

A thread is much slower (30 mins to work out what I needed to do). The one in the above picture is a fiddle really. I have not really got control of the thread count and the thread is actually a separate mesh from the shaft because I did not want the faff of sorting it out.

 

So I would agree with Roy and suggest Fusion for this sort of application. Blender is good for other things - but if you have the dimensions, Fusion might win there too.

 

The only downside is probably licencing.

 

Finally Roy, thanks for  the kind comments - really I ought to be better at Blender given the amount of time I've played with it though.

 

Regards


Nick

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  • 5 months later...

It's been five months since I worked on the Delage-project. Some may wonder how things are standing. 

 

Last months turned out to be very busy work-wise. To me honouring the interest of my clients always is and will be most important, which can be detrimental to the hobby. Furthermore I'm proud to move my law office to a nice spot at Leidsplein, Amsterdam in a few weeks. These and other aspects cost loads of time. Meanwhile however I have started reading into Fusion 360 in order to learn more about this great 3D suite in a passive way. 

 

I expect that I'll be able to resume my work on the video updates (they take time to create but I think they really offer added value versus text) at the earliest in November, maybe even 2019. In the third video I will finalise the introduction to Fusion 360 by making a comparison with Blender inspired by Nick's post above. Also I'll show how to convert the bolt featured in the second video into a nut, in a very simple manner. The fourth video will most probably discuss a sketching step plan. Fusion 360 is wonderful and works intuitively, but one needs a well deliberated plan to prevent problems from occurring. 

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  • 2 months later...

Brief update.

 

Whereas the new office space is still unorganised (I'll have to meet my clients elsewhere in the meantime), I've been unfortunate enough to find the bathroom in our newly purchased house completely ruined by leakages. Behind the tiles we encountered a plethora of black fungus. In its crushing path, the water has chosen to eat away part of the wooden frame of a supporting wall of the building. Multiple parties seem to be responsible for our financial loss, meaning a lot of evidence-gathering and several legal proceedings (preparations). Next, we'll be building the bathroom of our dreams. Hopefully it will be ready around April 2019.

 

Sorry guys but the beautiful subject of this topic will have to wait a bit more... one positive though: in this new home I'll have a better spot to practice my hobby! 

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Truly discouraging news Roy, very upsetting. Having model work delayed is the least of the misfortune.

I sincerely hope you are not inconvenienced for long and normal life resumes for you and the family very quickly.

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Thanks Mr Codger! 

 

My enjoyment of this hobby has always been cyclical: sometimes I can't wait till I can use the airbrush or lathe, and sometimes there are several weeks or even months what I don't care too much. Those are usually useful times to catch up with my regular ('professional') work. Unfortunately, the last couple of months I have been longing to get back to this project, but I just cannot because I don't have the time. 

 

Fortunately this forum, and especially the vehicles subforum, have been very entertaining and inspiring. I'm glad to have noticed your (too) modest self having posted several useful and interesting insights, advices and knowledge in some of the higher quality topics around. Be assured that I'll read and sometimes even study each of your comments with full attention, they never disappoint. 

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Hi Roy,

 

Sounds like a nightmare - particularly just before Christmas.

19 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said:

Multiple parties seem to be responsible for our financial loss,

From our past discussions, I am sure you will be more than capable of untangling the problem and hopefully being ultimately successful.

 

All the best for the New Year


Nick

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