Delage 15-S-8 Grand Prix (1/8)

[Roy vd M.]

@Hannes I had not heard of that book and ordered it today, thanks for the recommendation. When I was at it I also ordered 'The complete history of Grand Prix motor racing' by Adriano Cimarosti, a book that had been on my wish list. World of Books had one of each, seemed like a nice opportunity. 

 

236. Meanwhile Rev's Institute informed me that there had been an error in measuring the wheelbase; it's 2,500mm. (98,5") after all. This has solved one issue regarding the structure / space between steering wheel and rear of bonnets. The new version of this drawing starts to look a lot like the real car. Here a comparison between Mr Ison's drawing (bottom), the newly amended drawing (center) as well as an overlay drawing of these two (top). 

237. There's more good news. I remembered that some photos of the inner views of the car had been published, particularly this one:



(Copyright Auto Restorations Ltd. New Zealand, educational / referential purposes only, picture will be deleted upon first request)

238. I measured the diameter of two adjacent cylinders, calculated their average and compared that number with the space between those cylinders. This proved that the cylinders in my drawing were spaced too broadly. I therefore compressed the cylinders (no pun intended, honestly), using probable dimensions between cylinders 4 and 5 and behind 8. Fortunately the new assembly fits the new drawing rather well (yes! #1). En plus, the bore appears to match those numbers as mentioned in literature, being 55,8mm. (yes! #2). 

 

This is what the intermediary result looks like: 

Yes I'll admit I played with the pistons' heights a bit... 

239. Meanwhile I asked Rev's Institute for permission to measure the car electronically, because that would be more precise than measurements by hand and sight; this would moreover be an opportunity to fetch more dimensions than planned originally. Lastly I'd be able to take some more photographs that I had forgotten to take while at Retromobile. 

 

There could be multiple reasons to refuse such request; this being a unique and invaluable car... I can imagine the owner would prefer to have this car have as little contact as possible with eager research fingers. On the other hand, no blueprint of this car has survived WW2 so I can imagine Rev's will consider it opportune to have a drawing that's as accurate as possible (and considerably more accurate than any of the existing drawings, to say the least). If I'll be granted permission I'll probably fly there this February. Next I'll make the drawings and building can finally start. The reason of all this trouble to get correct information is that I'll only be able to motivate myself to finish a job of thousands of hours if the basis is correct. 

240. I also found this beautiful impressive picture of the engine in full glory (chassis #5). The compressor can here be see very well, with nothing to block view. 



(Copyright Supercars.net, educational / referential purposes only, picture will be deleted upon first request)

At first glance it looks like it's an enormous engine, but that really is just an illusion. The total length between front of compressor till rear of block is only, approximately, 106cm. (41,7""). It's just a small 1,5 litre block after all. 

 

Hopefully some more news on my request to Rev's soon. 

 

Total build time: 47h.

Total measurements study: 48h.

[Roy vd M.]

Good news! Rev's Institute has welcomed me to visit the museum and take all dimensions I need to make the drawings. I'll fly over on the 9th and will get back on the 16th of February, so after a week. Obviously I'll use the opportunity to explore Miami, the Everglades and the Florida Keys, as I have never been to this part of Florida before. I'll just consider it a holiday! When at Naples I'll do quite a few measurements on the car, something I'll try to prepare as well as I can. Also I'll make a list of parts / points of view that I don't have good photo references of. After having studied my photo map last week it seems I have more stuff than I had thought but still, not everything I'd like to have. Also, not everything was photographed from the right height. 

 

I have decided to not share the dimensions or the newly made drawings in this thread, as I would hate it if Heller, Ebbro or a small kit producer would simply see this thread and use the dimensions for a new kit, not remunerating me for my energy and expenses (as a hobbyist!) of fetching those dimensions or creating those drawings. Rev's Institute has agreed to act as custodian of the dimensions and the drawings based thereupon. Of course I won't cease to share an abundance of build, method and technique pictures in this thread. I guess 99,99% of all visitors (those who aren't interested in scratchbuilding this particular car) wouldn't care in the least if the dimensions or drawings were made public, but it seemed nice to explain anyway.

 

More news in due time. 

[PROPELLER]

You are a lucky man...
At Miami, you have to go also at well known Joe's restaurant, crabs claws are fantastic!

[Totally Mad Olivier]

7 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

Good news! Rev's Institute has welcomed me to visit the museum and take all dimensions I need to make the drawings. I'll fly over on the 9th and will get back on the 16th of February, so after a week

Waooh Roy, that's great! I wish you a pleasant stay there (the whole museum is exceptional) and I am sure this will be very helpful to build the most convincing model ever done. If I could have done the same for the Fiat 806... 

All the best and a happy new year to you!

 

Olivier

[sharknose156]

Well done on all this research and measurement ! Amazing work. 

 

i keep watching this thread with great anticipation. Enjoy the Rev and Miami.

This work will bring you in the Wingrove league !

cheers and a very happy new year 

 

Sam 

 

PS: i think your alu twirls were better than mine by far and more regular indeed. My challenge is to reproduce 'square' bouchonnage on the Mef dashboard ... and faded on top of it ! 

 

 

[Roy vd M.]

On 02/01/2018 at 10:30 PM, PROPELLER said:

At Miami, you have to go also at well known Joe's restaurant, crabs claws are fantastic!

I'll try not to forget that! Put it in my things-to-do list. 

On 03/01/2018 at 5:42 AM, Olivier de St Raph said:

Waooh Roy, that's great! I wish you a pleasant stay there (the whole museum is exceptional)

Hopefully I'll have time to see the rest of the museum. I think I'll be busy most of the day on the measurements. I'd love to have a look at the other cars as well... 

On 03/01/2018 at 5:42 AM, Olivier de St Raph said:

and I am sure this will be very helpful to build the most convincing model ever done.

Your hopes are set a little high  But I'm quite sure that the dimensions will be much more precise than I have now. 

On 03/01/2018 at 5:42 AM, Olivier de St Raph said:

If I could have done the same for the Fiat 806... 

"Dear Mr Agnelli, 

 

Coming back to the matter of the priceless car you once destroyed, (...)"

 

It is and always will be a shame. 

On 04/01/2018 at 10:51 AM, sharknose156 said:

i keep watching this thread with great anticipation. Enjoy the Rev and Miami.

I really look forward to start working on the model as well. But all this preparation has its fun too, I must admit.

On 04/01/2018 at 10:51 AM, sharknose156 said:

This work will bring you in the Wingrove league !

If my work would reach Mr Wingrove's shadows I'd be quite happy. 

On 04/01/2018 at 10:51 AM, sharknose156 said:

My challenge is to reproduce 'square' bouchonnage on the Mef dashboard ... and faded on top of it ! 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'faded on top of it'. The square swirls are doable by means of the recently acquired tool. If you want I can send you a specimen to test with (I have 10 and I can always get more relatively easily); it's ideally used on a milling machine. You could try using it in a collet. If you're interested just send me your address per PM. 

 

 

Measuring a Grand Prix car

241. Measuring a car, how hard can it be... the answer: more difficult than it would seem at first glance. Although I've been very busy with my 'regular job / work', which will not change much the next two weeks, it would have been imprudent to not prepare (the preparation of) the measuring work. 

 

In planning I'll follow the method outlined by Gerald Wingrove in his unrivalled book 'The Complete Car Modeller 1', pages 11 to 22. The last couple of years techniques and tools have improved so in addition to the techniques described by Mr Wingrove I'll use a laser measuring device for dimensions larger than 15 centimeters. I'll use Jim Ison's drawings as a 'fill out basis' because although those drawings aren't completely accurate number-wise, they do provide a nice basis for an overview of points and dimensions to be measured. It doesn't matter much that the dimensions according to Mr Ison are not correct, because for this purpose it's only important that the general shape is correct. It's like using a template. 

 

I will follow the three-step-plan by Mr Wingrove, described on page 19 of his book: 

 

1) Taking a number of measurements to point out the external shapes of the car. This will be done in Florida.

2) Plotting the basic shapes and 'coordinates' on paper and, on the basis of photos, filling out the missing and smaller details. This can be done at home, but extra photos will have to be taken. 

3) Each time a part will be modelled, that part will first have to be drawn in a separate drawing, on the basis of the main drawing described under 2. 

 

Preparations are currently focused on 1), but each time I think of extra photos that could come handy or are required I'll also note that (for the benefit of 2. and 3). 

 

These are the measuring tools I'll use: 



Most tools will speak for themselves. The laser measurer is Bosch: affordable, very accurate and very basic function-wise. I won't need anything more for this single project. Graduated ark I'll use to... measure angles; measuring tape for measuring curves. The electronic caliper isn't highest quality but I won't take my Mahr to the USA.. that's too risky. The caliper can't be carried in hand luggage because it's sharp; and we all know how harsh airport groundhandling sometimes treats suitcases... 

 

Every 'coordinate' will have a twofold-measurement, at the least: height and either length or width. I'll start measuring length-wise, then front- and rear measurements, next the top dimensions and finally interior, engine and wheels. 

 

As Mr Wingrove wrote, first I'll need to establish some 'anchor' or 'key' points. Starting on the wheelbase, that's approximately 2.500mm. and I'll call, as Mr Wingrove did, 'A'. Next I'll measure how many millimeters, horizontally and perpendicular to the car centerline, the distance between front wheel center and front spring shackles is. All spring connecting points are measured from the respective wheels (two front, two rear), called 'B1', 'B2', 'B3' and 'B4'. I'll check if the combination of A, B1 and B4 equals the distance between the outer connection points. The height of these points will be called 'C1', 'C2', 'C3' and 'C4'. 

 

Now the parts connected to, and subassemblies near, the chassis can be measured from one of the B-points, always perpendicularly to the car. Chassis curvatures are therefore not taken into account. I'll often do checks. Subassemblies, nuts, bolts will also be measured as much as I can. 

 

After the chassis and its fittings will have been capped lengthwise, the rest of the body can be measured. For that I'll need higher points, such as the front firewall lining and the end of the radiator house. The heights of these points will be measured as well. 

 

Next the width (top, front and rear views) will be measured, based on track gauge, grille ends, distance between springs et cetera. Many measurements of the chassis shape and body width will need to be taken. These 'threedimensional points' will need to be connected to previously performed measurements as well as the floor. 

 

To fetch the absolute lengths (for example from wheel center to one of the ends of the springs, say B2) I designed a little system that I might use, perhaps slightly amended. Based on this drawing: 



Explanation: the laser will be put inside a block of wood (yet to be carved). Only the height of the laser beam can be amended. The wooden block will be positioned perpendicularly to the car thanks to the use of an L-profile or the like, put parallel to the car. The laser beam is aimed at the center of the wheel (step 1). Idem the second (identical) wooden block, pointing at one end of the springs. When both blocks are rightly positioned, the distance between their centers can be measured using the laser beam. That will be the absolute length called 'B2'. 

 

I'm not sure how all dimensions will have to be established but I'll continue thinking long and hard about that. 

 

In total, for step 1 I'll have to take approximately 300 to 400 dimensions, inclusive of engine, wheels and interior. It's much easier to make a model based on a blueprint than vice versa, but because there's no blueprint of this car and because I'd like to have it as accurately as I can, a little bit extra trouble has to be undertaken. The eventual, very elaborate, step plan will be shared in this topic; as mentioned before I won't share the dimensions; but of course I'll describe the modelling based on them in detail as usual. 

Total build time: 47h. 
Total measurements study: 51h.

[sharknose156]

Dear Roy

 

Impressive preparations but i did not expect less from you.

 

Thank you for the generous offer and i will write you when i am back home this week end.

 

Sam

[NickD]

Roy,

 

A couple of thoughts - not sure if they are any good or not

 

Centres are difficult to measure. An alternative would perhaps be to measure diameters and calculate the centre. Would be easy if you could touch the car. Just measure the distance between two verticals.

 

Looking at your list of things I wondered if a use could be found for:

 

- String - Useful in so many ways particularly with a weight. Good for straight lines and verticals

- Laser levels - allow a perfectly straight line to be drawn on something you can't touch. Could assess how vertical or hoizontal things are are.

- Metal straight edge - I have a lightweight metre long level. Useful in many ways (if it is actually straight of course which I once found to my cost it wasn't) Might be cheap enough to buy locally.

- A couple of light stools or chairs - would allow straight traverses.

 

Oh and a towel! Essential by definition.

 

Have a good trip

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Roy vd M.]

@NickD Thanks for those tips. I'll study them in a week when the final preparations will be made. I like the string suggestion, will definitely use that one! Laser levels... I'll try to do as much as I can with the laser I already have, these preparations being expensive as they are. Towel will be necessary indeed. 


242. The thought of taking 400 dimensions max I'll just leave, unfortunately. I'll see where things will lead me.

 

The frame is the most important basis of measurements. I sketched all bolts, structures and other particulars. The thick red dots will be measured threefold: X-axle, Y-axle and Z-axle (width, length resp. height). The red lines are minor, singular dimensions and diameters. The red lines regarding frame and springs will, in addition, be measured from the top threefold as well, in order to establish exact positions. 

 

The next drawing alone represents some 300 measurements-to-be-done. 



243. I filled out the drawing on the basis of a number of prints made of photos taken at Retromobile, as well as a few video stills. Those printouts will probably prove to be useful later during the actual measuring. 



244. To provide an example of what I plan to measure... the orange dot. 



245. It's this screw.



246. Y-measurement: the laser measuring device is situated in front of the car on a set location, pointed parallel to the center line of the car. The laser is reflected at the screw. 



247. Z-measurement: the device is pointed toward the floor, from the screw. 



248. The X-measurement: Supports / reflectors are positioned on both sides of the frame, leaning to the frame. That way the distance between both supports can be recorded. 

Seen from the frame, most of the other dimensions can be established. More info on the preparations in due time. 

Total building time: 47h. 

Total measurements study: 54h.

[Roy vd M.]

249. So many things have happened since my previous post of 21 January that I hope you’ll accept a mere (but elaborate enough) summary which I will divide into two posts.

 

First of all a lot of energy was put into preparing the measurements. To make a long story short I found a way to capture all dimensions by myself, without help. Also I was able to greatly reduce the required number of measurements.

 

The first step to get there was to amend the sketch. I started with the chassis as a basis. On the chassis I chose several coordinates that I wanted to establish:

 

1)   in length from the frame front.

2)   in height, highest point of the frame measured from the floor.

3)   in height, measuring the chassis itself.

4)   in width, from the right frame piece to the left frame piece.

 

There are many bolts, axles, beams and other markers along the chassis. Where there were none I used the position of bodywork rivets. After measuring I’ll be able to draw the outline of the chassis, in three dimensions. The same thing I’d do with the wheels and leaf springs.

 

 

 

250. Length measurement test: this part of my car is 322,3 cm. from…

 

  

251. … the steel stand all the way in the back. You’ll notice the laser dot. When measuring the Delage I would simply use the white wooden block to point the laser at.

 

 

 

252. Next the width. On the opposite side of the car there’s a similar setup. Advantage of the Delage versus my own car: the Delage’s chassis is perfectly vertical.

 

The support was packed with painter’s tape, to prevent any scratches to paint or metal.

 

 

253. This is what the measurement looks like from below. It now seems very logical to measure width from underneath the chassis, but I’ll tell you there was a true ‘eureka’-moment when I first thought of this possibility.

 

 

254. What remains is the height. The horizontal panel line represents the top of the Delage’s frame.

 

 

255. The wooden block is very light and doesn’t scratch the paint if handled with care. On the Delage I would use a protective cloth, just to be sure.

 

 

256. The laser device is functional in measurements from 15 cm. Lucky coincidence… the electronic gauge does measurements until 15 cm.! By the way I would not take my Mahr to the USA as it is too precious. I purchased a rather simple replacement. If it’s 0,1 millimeter off, that would be negligible on 1/8^th scale.

 

 

257. Not long before my trip to the USA two things came to my attention.

 

First I receive confirmation from Mr Christophe Pund, owner of the to-be-reinstated chassis #3, that I would be allowed to measure its engine. My original mail to Mr Pund was written under the impression that Mr Ison’s drawings were mostly correct except for the engine (hence my request to measure Mr Pund’s engine). End of 2017 I found out that Mr Ison’s drawings had multiple other flaws, hence my request to visit Revs Institute.

 

Anyway Mr Pund said I was welcome to measure the car when at Retromobile. To me it was still a relevant opportunity to do this even after making the plans to measure chassis #1 at Revs, for three reasons: firstly because I’d be able to measure parts of the engine I would never be able to reach while at Revs. Secondly because measuring stuff in Paris could save me precious time in Florida. Thirdly it would be a nice practice opportunity.

 

The problem was that Retromobile started on Wednesday whereas I would fly to the USA two days later. Paris may be close but not THAT close.

 

A few days before my flight to Florida I learned that Mr Peter Giddings, owner of chassis #4, would visit Retromobile. Long story short, we agreed to meet there and discuss the car and the model. I simply couldn’t refuse this double opportunity. Plus, the great classic car show that is Retromobile is a substantial bonus.

 

So I prepared everything, packed everything, purchased Thalys tickets for Wednesday (=the only possible day I could visit Paris because I would fly on Friday), booked a hotel and used my three hours in the train to prepare the detail sketches. Here are two examples:

 

 

 

258. These first sketches (20 or so) were specifically meant for my Paris measuring opportunity. I also prepared the engine drawings of course; luckily I was able to use Mr Ison’s drawings for that. Later, on the plane to Miami, I would draw the remaining sketches (some 40), each containing several dimensions to be gathered.

 

An example of the annotated engine drawing:

 

  

259. It was at this exact time that the winter clouds in Paris had packed, released all the snow they had gathered and disordering all traffic. Some 50 miles north of Paris the Thalys started reducing speed. The train was bound to enter wintery Paris way too late.

 

 

 

260. At one point in time I thought we would never get there, for instance because Gare du Nord would be inaccessible or the like. But slowly but surely we got there. The in-train news that the metro network was down appeared either exaggerated or old: once in Paris traffic problems were over.

 

All of this gave me time to finalize all the sketches I’d need in Paris. So it wasn’t all bad.

 

 

 

261. Soon I was very glad I made the choice to visit Retromobile. Mr Pund was very kind and patient, so a lot of measurements could -finally- be codified.

 

 

 

262. The crown of my experience at Retromobile 2018 was my meeting with Peter Giddings. Knowledgable, modest, inspiring are the best words I can think of. The time we spoke about the Delage and other cars (some three hours) seemed to fly by. I am very grateful for this opportunity. I learned many things about the Delage 15-S-8 and about how best to prepare building the model.

 

After measuring and after meeting Mr Giddings I had about two hours left to see the car show. It was excellent and I could as well have spent two full days there without getting bored. So many beautiful and special cars to be admired there… one of my topic-relevant highlights is the 1926 Talbot-Darracq racer. It is probably just as historically relevant as its competitor the Delage. Of course I took a (unfortunately, due to time management issues: short) video walkaround and some pictures. Beautiful car!

 

 

 

263. The next day I spent strolling through snow-covered Paris, enjoying the wintery views from Montmartre hill, eating macarons and preparing the next set of detail drawings at the Gare du Nord train station. Upon arriving back in Amsterdam the suitcase was to be packed for the trip to Florida, next morning.

 

That will be the subject of the second and final instalment of this update.

[Codger]

You bring a whole new level of enjoyment to model building Roy. Thank you for taking us along. You're right, the cars are fabulous.

[parryj]

Roy, these updates are fabulous, and you are so inspirational by showing how you plan for the trip and the steps you'll be taking.

 

[PROPELLER]

Well, now may I have the measures of the Corvette?

Dan.

[harveyb258]

Great stuff Roy! I always look forward to your updates...a mine of interesting info!

 

Cheers, H

[Roy vd M.]

@Codger and @parryj and @harveyb258: I'm glad you guys like these stories. I always am so elaborate... but I simply enjoy telling everything that happens, that I learn, that I gather... good that it's appreciated!

 

@PROPELLER You modelling a Corvette C5 model, that would be the day Thanks for the continuous interest for this highly incidental build report. Meanwhile I'll just enjoy and learn from your own great build progress reports...

 

 

Update part 2 of 2

 

264. Soon I would see that beloved car again! But first, traveling to Miami. Having packed wooden blocks, steel stands, all kinds of (electronic) measuring devices and my sunglasses, and traveling alone, I certainly wouldn’t be picked for baggage check.

 

Baggage check

265. I had just asked a nice lady at Orlando airport if and where I would be able to make a phone call (to Revs, requesting them for more time for my measurements… during the flight I had completed my set of detail drawings to approximately 60, each containing several dimensions to be taken… I’d never be able to do all this in one day). She said “outside”, pointing to the free world that is America. As it turned out I’d have to leave the airport building, re-enter a hundred metres down the street, for my connecting flight.

 

Thanking her, a few minutes later I met her again, only this time next to the scanning station and pointing at my suitcase. She asked me what the purpose of my visit was ‘business or leisure’. I said ‘neither, really. I’m here to measure a car that I want to build a 1/8^th scale model of. That’s a hobby of mine. There’s only one original car and that is situated in Florida so here I am”

 

Sadly, that story led to my having to open up my suitcase. After the baggage check, having left the nice lady in puzzlement, I headed to the connecting flight to Miami. Unfortunatly I didn’t bring my bag of Disney trading pins or I would have been able to trade with the lady at the checkin counter. Those pins can really be found everywhere in the greater Orlando area.

 

Miami

266. Having landed in Miami I picked up the rental car, went to see South Beach with its series of beautiful art deco hotels, had a delicious meal at Joe’s (thanks for the recommendation @Propeller, you were right!) and visited the Biltmore hotel next day. Crossing the Everglades (unfortunately no time for a visit) I was awe-inspired by the magnificent birds of prey and the signs ‘panther crossing’. Panthers?? Yeah.

 

Revs Institute

267. Finally, day three, it was time to meet Paul Kierstein and his colleagues at Revs Institute. From the first moment I set foot on their premises I felt warmly welcomed. Paul gave me a tour around the racing cars section and the incredible library of the Institute. I was that boy inside that candystore… really, I cannot begin to describe what a treasure chest the Institute have at their disposal. I’ll try hereunder anyway.

 

So then the measuring work began. It was a lot of work and it left me with aching muscles everywhere, but it was worth it. I’m now ready (except for two dimensions I forgot to take but Paul will measure and send them to me) to draw two-dimensional views of the car.  Those can then be used as a solid base for the build.

 

 

The Delage 15-S-8, chassis #1

 

268. But it wasn’t only the Delage that got me inspired while I was at Revs. From time to time small guided tour groups came by and their knowledgeable guides told many stories and facts about the cars on display. It soon occurred to me that these are not regular racing cars, nor are the other cars on display regular sports or regular luxury cars. Each specimen was hand-picked into the collection for quality and significance. Each car has a specific historic value. Hearing the explanations that the employees at Revs had been elaborating (while doing the measuring it was a joy to listen) made me long for more knowledge regarding the history of Grand Prix racing.

 

For example a 1913 Peugeot racer. Peugeot? Grand Prix racing history? I thought ‘nice car, didn’t know they ever did any Grand Prix racing’. But while I was measuring the Delage, opposite the Peugeot, almost every guide that passed explained how important that car had been. One of them said ‘This Peugeot is probably the most important car of our racing collection’. Eyebrows raised I took another look at the 1927 championship winning car (!) that I was currently measuring and thought to myself “huh?? What’s up with the Peugeot?!” So upon arriving at home I started reading about it and I soon found out what sensational novelties Peugeot had implemented into that very car.

 

That is just an example. Even after having been back home for just a few weeks I wish I had known the stuff then that I have learned those last few weeks, in books I already owned but had only partly read. On the other hand, this is probably a good thing, or I wouldn’t have been able to fully focus on the Delage.

 

269. Slowly but surely I found out that this isn’t the average museum at all. It is something extraordinary. Not only does it have a very well-chosen collection of historically important cars… these cars are not behind posts or ropes. You aren’t allowed to touch them but you can get very close if you want to. The guides are enthusiastic and clearly love their job (who wouldn’t!), pointing out interesting details to dream about.

 

As said, the library is unforgivingly large. When given the tour I stupidly kept smiling my wide grin all the time. I tried to hide it but was left no choice but to surrender. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone informed me ALL car magazines from EVERY country in the world from the EACH year were to be found there. I was then stupefied to be led into another room containing hundreds of shelves filled with car-related books and memorabilia of knowhow and history. The list goes on and on: rare slides, videos, children’s books featuring cars, posters, booklets… and that’s just the non-electronic collection. Of course there’s also a massive amount of computer data.

 

270. Simply put, I was overwhelmed. I thoroughly recommend anyone who has a serious interest in (especially: vintage) cars to visit Revs Institute. It’s worth the trip. If you’re in Miami, go there. If you’re in Disney World… tell your wife and kids you were intensely recommended to visit Revs. You definitely won’t be disappointed. By the way, if you are looking for specific info and you’re not able to visit Revs Institute, just ask them if they can help you. Understandably if you’ll ask them to spend time and energy for your purposes they will ask for a reasonable reimbursement. Consider this as your contribution to maintain the beautiful collection. Big chance they have exactly the info you need. Just to name an example, during our Fiat 806-research every source (including Fiat Centro Storico) told us that no blueprints of that car had survived. Guess what… Revs had an ancient (1:1 scale) copy of one blueprint. Just like that!

 

Unlike most other museums and institutes, Revs are very willing to share and that’s what makes them so special, in addition to having such a large database and library. Oh yes this is the point where I almost forgot to remind of their collection of remarkable cars.

 

271. For modellers in particular there are several famous modelling subjects to be spotted and studied:

 

-       They have a large collection of Porsches;

-       A large collection of beautiful Cunninghams;

 

 

One of Revs’ Cunninghams, the 1952 C-4R.

 

-       Several Bentleys;

-       Bugatti 35 (several model kits);

-       Mercer Raceabout (several model kits);

-       Mercedes SSK (several kits);

-       Lancia D50 (Hiro kit);

-       Jaguar D-type (several kits);

-       Ford GT-40, two versions (several kits);

-       Alfa Romeo 8C (Pocher kit);

 

 

The famous Alfa Romeo 8C

 

-       1963 Corvette Grand Sport (Accurate Miniatures kit);

-       Porsche 917K (Hiro / Fujimi kits);

-       1967 Gurney Eagle (Hiro kit);

 

 

1967 Gurney Eagle

 

… and several others such a Jaguar E-type, touring T-Ford, BMW 328, Delahaye (exquisite..) et cetera. Too many to mention.

 

272. Did I say I was impressed? Well this visit, along with the talk I had with Peter Giddings in Paris, made me want to know more about the history of Grand Prix racing. So now those books that had been gathering dust on my bookshelf… finally I have started reading them in full, rather than turning to the page dealing with the 1926/1927-era. Grand Prix racing is a great subject and an addictive read.

 

So what’s next?

273. After visiting Revs and after thanking the good people who made me feel so welcome there, for the first time in two months a burden of stress was lifted. Finally the measurements were done… phew! All of the sketches and drawings containing hundreds of dimensions were photographed and sent to my girlfriend through Whatsapp for backup purposes. I spent my remaining days in Florida at the Keys, living this trip as a one week personal holiday so doing some snorkelling and being the ultimate tourist at Hemingway’s house at Key West; before flying back to Amsterdam… to follow-up a series of deadlines my clients had kindly presented me. Who am I to blame them. But hence this rather late update.

 

I am now almost ready to make the drawings and, after that, to start the build which, as you can conclude by reading these texts, has become somewhat of an exciting journey to me. One important thing I will have to do before I’ll start is, perform some more engine-specific research. I will come back to that as soon as I have news or made progress.

 

[Codger]

Roy, thank you for taking me along on your marvelous journey. I'm ashamed to say as a US resident and auto enthusiast that I have not been to Revs in Miami. Before I depart, I should go there.

 

I enjoyed your entire story - except where my country -woman could have been more been more hospitable towards you. Should have been obvious you're not a bomb carrier...

[Roy vd M.]

@Codger whereas my descriptions are often cynical, in this case the lady really was very nice. Sorry to be unclear about that. It's just standard procedure if a large piece of steel is detected in a suitcase and if a person is travelling alone, to have the luggage checked. I'd have been much surprised if that hadn't happened. No worries, I always consider US immigration very helpful and friendly, this time was no exception. 

[sharknose156]

dear Roy

 

Welcome back!

Big Woao. Great achievements here.

Very well narrated as well makes it so 'passionant'.

 "Thats what am talking about."

 

Looking forward to your next installements. 

 

will send you a pm on the pearling.

 

cheers 

Sam

[NickD]

Roy,

 

Impressed that even after all the hype, your trip was even more than you expected. Good luck with the build.

Regards

 

Nick

[Schwarz-Brot]

Thank you. I think I put Paris and Florida on top of my travelling plans... If only my girlfriend was that much into cars. I admire your dedication and enjoy every single post.

[Roy vd M.]

On 15/03/2018 at 9:25 PM, Schwarz-Brot said:

Thank you. I think I put Paris and Florida on top of my travelling plans... If only my girlfriend was that much into cars. I admire your dedication and enjoy every single post.

Fortunately my girlfriend has quite general interest, we went to a Formula 1 race in Hungary together two years ago and she enjoyed that. I'm really lucky in that aspect. 

 

Something I forgot to mention, making a reservation to visit Revs is mandatory... they are a quiet museum and like people to enjoy the cars without screaming children or large groups around etc. This was actually another advantage of the museum. So to everyone who at one point wants to visit the museum, be sure to make a reservation.

 

On 12/03/2018 at 10:25 PM, NickD said:

Impressed that even after all the hype, your trip was even more than you expected. Good luck with the build.

 

I was much impressed myself, thanks Nick... I'm having a great time so all of these efforts are definitely worth it. 

 

On 12/03/2018 at 8:41 PM, sharknose156 said:

Big Woao. Great achievements here.

Very well narrated as well makes it so 'passionant'.

Thank you Sam, glad you like to read these progress reports. 

 

 

274. Last weekend I installed the software suite Fusion 360. The basic principles are very well explained in the three-session Youtube series of tutorials for absolute beginners, by Lars Christensen. Just Google him, it's great stuff and he is a natural teacher. I'm sure that even those without any cad-experience can start with that right away. Personally I don't have any 3D-cad experience at all, only a little bit of 2D-cad. Beside that I know the basics of some regular drawing software suits. 

 

My strategy: I watched the three introduction videos, which in total took me little over an hour. Then I watched them again, trying to copy the things demonstrated. That way I tried to find out where any difficulties are. The second session cost me probably 2 hours. Where I had questions I found the answers in some of the numerous subject-specific videos on Youtube. Next I studied the first part of a video where Mr Christensen sketched a spark plug (info which I'll gratefully use of course). 

 

275. Having this very narrow basis, it seemed fun and interesting to try something. Just for kicks, and just sketching, without having entered any real dimensions. I must say that Fusion 360 (this powerful software is free to use for hobbyists) really blew my mind thus far, I like its intuitiveness. I tried to loosely draw part of one of the cam covers. 

 

My steps: first I drew the front face of the cam cover (=clock shape). That's not difficult in 2D. Next I added 'rules' to that clock shape. For example I told the software that some lines should be vertical, others horizontal, symmetry... et cetera. Christensen taught these as 'good practices'. After finalising the clock shape, I stretched that into a 3D-shape. Imagine this process by simply drawing a twodimensional square and then as an 'accordion' stretching it into 3D. Just like that, this twodimensional 'clock' I stretched into a threedimensional loooooong clock. 

 

Next I selected the bottom of the 'clock' and created sixteen circles (by drawing one circle and copying it sixteen times). 

 

Those circles were then stretched into 3D, similarly as the 'clock'... they pierce through the camshaft cover, upwards, as cylinders. 

 

Thus there were sixteen cilinders through the clock shape. 

Finally, through the use of fillets, the connections between the cilinders and the clock were rounded off. Adding a bit of ready-made thread and a ready-made nut, makes the drawing start to look like a camshaft cover! 



Here the original camshaft cover of chassis #5, seen from 'above'. 

276. Of course the drawn shape is totally incorrect re. dimensions for example (and the cilinders are, in my drawing, wrongly positioned) but this is of course just for practice. I'm very enthusiastic about the program and I think it's a good move to first (partly) draw the model and then start real world modelling, because only after finalizing the model will I have all dimensions and shapes at my disposal and I'll know for sure that everything is correct (checked with the photos). It's well possible that I won't draw all of the car but just part of it, to know for sure that I have stablished all dimensions. I may have approximately 650 dimensions of the Delage, but I'd have dreamed to have 3.000... that is however unrealistic. After finishing the 3D model I can take those dimensions from the 3D model! Because no blueprints of the car have survived, I have a handicap of incompleteness, something that I'll try to compensate through the use of Fusion 360, using those dimensions available to me, comparing with the many photos and videos I took. 

 

Next step will be, to watch another tutorial video (taking notes and attempting, along the way); then testing and trying to create something of the Delage just as a sketch, next another tutorial, et cetera. That's how my learning process works best.

[sharknose156]

Again you are pushing into a new world again ... 3D... i think this is great and soon a great tool for modellers and 3D printing for making parts difficult to scratch.

Like those 32 castle nuts/acorns ( is this what they are ?) 

 

very exciting and great narration as usual.

 

Cheers

Sam

[Roy vd M.]

Yes I agree that 3D printing has started to move the modelling world. 

 

I forgot to emphasize that, although I admire what can be done with 3D printing, that is not the reason why I'll try to create a virtual 3D model; that's solely for the establishment of a working drawing. To comfort the followers of this thread: I'll stick to the original plan of using 'old fashioned' machines such as lathe and mill, to create the 1/8th scale model. Today I was asked whether I'd not want to transform my lathe / mill to CNC. Same answer there: no I want to do everything by hand, using those machines... using the handwheels. Somewhere in this topic I wrote an explanation on the reasons; summarized: it has always been a dream of mine to create a full scratch model. I don't want to 'cheat' by 3D-printing or using CNC   Perhaps my mind will change in a year or so, but this is how it is right now, as it was from the start.

 

I also explained to the other modeller that using virtual 3D doesn't feel like 'cheating' to me, because it compensates for the handicap of not having blueprints at my disposal while intending to remain as true to the shape of the real car as I reasonably can. 

 

Oh yes and they are castle nuts on the real car, well spotted. I intend to turn and mill each one individually, just to be able to say I created the model all by myself.

[Roy vd M.]

Oops... I forgot a whole paragraph...! 

 

Before I started on the virtual 3D work I made a quick sketch in Gimp with the real chassis dimensions. This is the only 2D sketch I'll upload to the forum, just as an example to show you guys how great the difference is between Mr Ison's drawing and reality. It's clear he never saw the car in person or didn't have the time and/or opportunity to measure it. 

 

It's a sketch, only the black lines indicate true cross-sections of the chassis. 

 

In brief: the thin red line shows the approximate trace of the real chassis. The thick red line is Ison's version. The real chassis is thicker near the end and bends upward slightly. 

 

The difference is rather huge. Frontwards of the chassis a similar discrepancy occurs. 

 

See here a picture of the real chassis, taken at Retromobile 2017 (mind that the car is positioned differently from the drawing). 



I can imagine why Mr Ison didn't get the correct shape. A wheel, leaf springs plus rear axle block the view. 

 

All in all I'm very happy that I visited Revs Institute, because of the discovered discrepancies. I did sleep peacefully and happily after making this sketch a few days ago!

[Codger]

Fantastic stuff !