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On ‎05‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, Kirk said:

OK: Attention Armourers!!!

Here are the questions that Vitaliy put to me via pm that you chaps may be able to help with:

 

Please can you explain how the ventral dispensers on the Harrier are configured? I see that sometimes there is something that looks like a flat cover over the dispenser, sometimes there's an empty grid and sometimes the grid is filled. Lots of questions:

  1. In theatre, are the dispensers always filled before a mission and partially used ones emptied afterwards?

  2. Can a single dispenser hold both chaff and flare at the same time?

  3. Is there a visual difference between the chaff and flare "capsules" that would show on a model?

  4. Should an aircraft with "live" dispensers shown an "aircraft armed" sign?

Thanks in advance.

You've grabbed the attention of one plummer, and I'm sober! I have Tornado F.3 and Typhoon experience so I should be able to help you with some questions.

These replies are from my experience on the types I listed above, Operational experience is solely F.3.

1. Both flare and chaff dispensers were always full prior to sorties. If the aircraft was serviceable when it landed we filled the chaff pods straight away, flare dispensers were removed at the same time as work couldn't be carried out with flares fitted even though you could have 8 missiles fitted!. Crews also dispensed some chaff and fired a couple of flares to prove the system was working once airborne and prior to going over the border so the flare pod would need filling. I assume you are referring to BOL and possibly Phimat chaff dispensers?

2. BOL and Phimat were chaff only, I can  not comment on specific Harrier kit as I never worked them.

3. Same answer as no 2.

4. Full Chaff pods did not require an aircraft armed sign as no explosives involved. Live flares required an armed sign, one in the cockpit, usually on the coming visible through the windscreen or clipped to the ladders and further signs on the entrance to the HAS or flight line or on the approach to a single aircraft, to its front and rear. Not however directly in line with forward or rearward firing weapons.

I hope that helps, a Harrier Plummer could be more specific however.

 

 

 

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On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 7:31 PM, Tyxxx said:

You've grabbed the attention of one plummer, and I'm sober! I have Tornado F.3 and Typhoon experience so I should be able to help you with some questions.

These replies are from my experience on the types I listed above, Operational experience is solely F.3.

1. Both flare and chaff dispensers were always full prior to sorties. If the aircraft was serviceable when it landed we filled the chaff pods straight away, flare dispensers were removed at the same time as work couldn't be carried out with flares fitted even though you could have 8 missiles fitted!. Crews also dispensed some chaff and fired a couple of flares to prove the system was working once airborne and prior to going over the border so the flare pod would need filling. I assume you are referring to BOL and possibly Phimat chaff dispensers?

2. BOL and Phimat were chaff only, I can  not comment on specific Harrier kit as I never worked them.

3. Same answer as no 2.

4. Full Chaff pods did not require an aircraft armed sign as no explosives involved. Live flares required an armed sign, one in the cockpit, usually on the coming visible through the windscreen or clipped to the ladders and further signs on the entrance to the HAS or flight line or on the approach to a single aircraft, to its front and rear. Not however directly in line with forward or rearward firing weapons.

I hope that helps, a Harrier Plummer could be more specific however.

 

 

 

 

Interesting stuff, Tyxxx! Thanks for taking the time to educate MAEs ("mostly-armchair" enthusiasts) like me.

 

The Harrier would appear to have a slightly different arrangement available to it (in Vitaliy's model's timeframe) as compared with what you describe for Tornado and Typhoon. Although it seemingly carried the TERMA countermeasures pod (and perhaps BOL on the intermediate AAM pylons) when in Afghanistan, it also has an inbuilt dispenser "scabbed" into the ventral fuselage aft of the airbrake; this is the bit that I think Vitaliy particularly wants to know about. I believe that it is functionally similar to the 4 units that feature on the US Harrier AV-8B+ aircraft that I've seen quite a few pictures of dispensing flares like it's Guy Fawkes night. I might be barking up a completely wrong tree but was under the impression that the same dispenser unit can discharge chaff and flare.

 

Like you suggest, this sounds like it needs a Harrier bod to know the specifics. Bet there are a couple lurking on BM. Perhaps it needs to be beer not chocolate!! :D

 

Kirk

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Blimey - I never thought anyone would model all the drain holes in a Harrier - let alone in 1:48. Somewhere, I think I may have an extract from a manual with them all listed - although I can't believe that you have missed any. Let me know if you want me to look for it.

 

If you are going for this sort of standard, it may be worth my pointing out that a Harrier "on the flight line" normally has its nose undercarriage doors open and the main undercarriage doors shut, although the latter tend not to close fully under stored hydraulic pressure and droop open ever so slightly. To be as closed as depicted by Hasegawa, the aircraft needs to be in flight; I guess there is a mechanical up-lock which holds them closer to the fuselage. (Just as a matter of interest, there is a mechanical lever accessible through the small hole next to the strut that allows the main doors to be opened for inspection of the main gear bay. When released the doors apparently swing down fast enough to catch anyone doing it for the 1st time, I'm told. I don't think that pilots perform this check.)

 

Don't go too heavily with your riveting tool either. They look as though they are in the right position to me but the vast majority of the real things are pretty much flush and in many lights don't show at all. I'm sure yours will be much softened by the painting stage and look forward to seeing the finished effect.

 

Cheers,

 

Kirk 

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Vitality, I can't help very much with the accuracy of your build, the detail you are creating is WAY above what I have ever aimed for. I was reading through this and was so impressed with your modelling skills and attention to detail, then you mention this is your first model :o and on top of that you have made some of your own tools!   :worthy:

Thanks for sharing, I'm watching every step. 

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That's really impressive Vitaliy. I particularly like the extent to which you have thinned the nozzle fairings; normally they look so thick and over-scale. Also like the diaphragm pieces that close of the fairings. Great attention to detail. :clap2:

Bit nervous about your rivet detail (the real aircraft seem pretty smooth in the flesh) but I'm sure the effect you have planned will come good once there is some paint on. Additional drain holes and vents are exquisite!

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I came across an interesting fact that mount heat shields on the US AV-8B and  RAF GR7 are at a different angle.

index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=171134

 

 

I made a mistake and redid the mounts at the correct angle

index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=171140

index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=171141

 

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Vitality I used Vallejo Mettalic. 77.723. But my Harrier was finished as if on duty in Afghanistan. I then used Tamiya Effect Weathering to soot it up from the centre lightening to the top and bottom.

 

Laurie

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