Ossington 2 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I assume their references are immaculate, but bulged main wheel door covers are new to me. I guess it wouldn't take long to sand them flat, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank152 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Good references don't necessarily equal an accurate kit! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Hi With the extra weight of the second seat and radar gear,etc, did this version have larger tyres ? might be worth some research before you sand cheers jerry a reference link might help you decide which way to go http://aircraftnut.blogspot.ca/2015/05/me-262b-1-twin-seater-night-fighter.html?m=1 Edited January 1, 2017 by brewerjerry extra info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I don't believe any version of the Me-262 had bulged gear fairing doors. The photo taken from head-on in brewerjerry's link clearly shows the front edges of the strut fairing doors and they are perfectly flat. None of the photos that I have seen of the two-seaters show bulged doors, nor is there any evidence of this in the outstanding three volume reference on the 262 by Creek and Smith, which has detail photos and diagrams of the undercart and doors. In addition, both the single and two seat versions used the same wheel and tire. Don't know why Revell did bulged doors- perhaps they were based on a postwar preserved Czech-built version that had non-standard wheels? Long story short- sand those puppies off! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hugo Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Unfortunately the extent Me262B-1 located in South Africa is missing the main wheel doors so I cannot confirm the accuracy of Revell's depiction Herewith a link to my walk around of the South African 262 http://www.wildaviation.com/gallery3/index.php/Walkarounds/wwii/Me262-Nightfighter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 The 262B is known as the CS92 to the Czechs. They have one in their museum. The main tyres do look fatter than the ones on the single-seater, but only slightly and the difference may have been easily contained within the wheel well bay as the doors look to be perfectly flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotusArenco Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 There are a few photos of some American soldiers looking at a 262 at the side of the road which seems to show a slight bulge on that wheel cover. Easy fix if it’s wrong, and let’s face it most of us will be getting etch sets that will have wheel door covers! I’ll be buying the kit as soon as I can get my grubby little mitts on it. Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 Thanks Guys. I love this forum! It's less trouble to post a picture up of my query than tear the house apart looking for my Smith & Creeks. Offhand, I don't remember noting bulges in the plans, but thought maybe they tweaked the undercarriage geometry a la Spitfire. Possibly a weight/braking/tyre scrubbing thing? It won't put me off buying the kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Charlie Hugo said: Unfortunately the extent Me262B-1 located in South Africa is missing the main wheel doors so I cannot confirm the accuracy of Revell's depiction Herewith a link to my walk around of the South African 262 http://www.wildaviation.com/gallery3/index.php/Walkarounds/wwii/Me262-Nightfighter Charlie, Awesome walkaround! At last- a photographer who knows the kind of walkaround photos a model builder needs! Thank you so much for sharing your link! Looks to me like the inner and strut fairing doors are flat- no bulges. Going to be referring to your walkaround when I do my b-1! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotusArenco Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Not looked in my Smith and Creek books yet, but the Japanese ‘Famous Airplanes of the World No.2’ on the Me262 shows a few photos of bulges. Any with this book, look at pages 44, 48 and 66. All show bulges, but on single seaters. Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 If you look in our walkround section we have photos of the CS92 which doesn't appear to have bulges on the doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Hello Are you sure, Dave? You should know as you had taken these pictures, but to me main undercarriage doors on both single and two seater look bulged. There is also a photo of Me 262 yellow 17, captured at the end of WWII, which clearly shows bulge's shadow. Check this link (needs some scrolling down): http://silverhawkauthor.com/rcaf-war-prize-flights-german-and-japanese-warbird-survivors-book_274.html Happy new year and cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotusArenco Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Smith and Creek volume 2, page 368 (Thought I'd find more) Schiffer Military History Vol.64, inside back cover. I have a fair few books on the 262, hardly any photos show that area in great detail. When they do it’s usually a dark area and hard to make out. I do wish those wartime photographers had more consideration for future model builders! I hate doing this, as I don’t like stepping on anyone’s copyright, but the following are quick phone shots from the ‘Famous Airplanes’ book. Mart Quick edit: These are some of the very few photos of bulged covers I’ve found. Most of the photos do show flat covers. Edited January 1, 2017 by LotusArenco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) There is a large A4 format photo walk round of 262 B-1a W.k. Nr 110639 published in Kagero Monograph 47 and definitely no bulged main wheel doors on that one in a US museum (location presumed from large USA flag in background) for what that is worth. Usual caveat on museum restorations applies. Added I have also found a photo in Smith and Creek Vol 3 page 505 of B-1a/U1 from the rear and the doors are flat on that airframe. Photo taken post war at the RAE. The pull out plans in that volume indicate flat doors too. Some photos do seem to suggest some curvature in the door and others less so. Some make the outside surface look pretty flat. Now I'm confused. Edited January 1, 2017 by JohnT More information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, LotusArenco said: I hate doing this, as I don’t like stepping on anyone’s copyright, but the following are quick phone shots from the ‘Famous Airplanes’ book. Hi Seems to me to be bulged slightly So maybe it was a late war mod cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 After looking at the photos that were posted as well as the walkarounds, I can see some instances of curvature on the lower strut fairing door, but no bulge per se. In the one photo that Jure presented, there is a dark teardrop-shaped area, but hard to tell if it is an actual bulge, as there doesn't seem to be a shadow below the shape, which would be cast by a bulge above it? I have a question to pose for consideration- if some Me-262's did have bulges on the lower strut fairing doors, what would be the reason for them? Usually A bulge would be required to enclose a larger wheel/tire, a strut that lay lower in the wheel bay, like on a late marque Spitfire, or to allow clearance for a retract arm or some other linkage associated with the undercart. None of these seem to be apparent on the Me-262. In fact, what has been described as a bulge on the lower door is directly opposite the axle on the main strut and would have no part in gaining clearance for a larger wheel/tire, which does not seem to be supported by the written references anyway. Also, IIRC, weren't the inner and outer strut fairing doors on the Me-262 of wooden construction? If so, could warpage of the doors account for the curvature seen in some of the photos that several of you have noted? Or possibly the bulged shape might be attributed to filler applied to that portion of the wood strut fairing which was not painted over in the RLM76 undersurface color? Lots of evidence for significant puttied but unpainted parts of late war Luftwaffe aircraft. Bottom line, I have no idea what the rationale was for the bulges in the Revell kit parts. Guess we can wait to see what the Airfix kit parts look like? Excellent discussion by some pretty decent blokes, though- I have enjoyed following this topic! Mike As Butterfly McQueen said in Gone With the Wind, "Lawsie, Miss Scarlett- I don't know nuthin' 'bout birthin' no babies!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 @Jure Miljovic There is a small lump right at the bottom of the door, but no bulge as such on the door itself. Looking at the kit parts the small bulge they have should be closer to the bottom edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) I wonder if part of the apparent bulge on the "open" doors (lower left, just to right of the gun nose) could be light showing through very thin plastic? Also, it appears that the bulge is differently shaped on the "closed" doors (lower right) vs. the "open" doors, which seems more likely to be visual illusion than a real discrepancy between kit parts (assuming that those two bits are, in fact, open and closed doors). Another thought- what about the reproductions that are now out and about- might they have added a bulge to accomodate new parts, and Revell copied that? bob Edited January 2, 2017 by gingerbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 gingerbob, I need to get a life! Just finished looking at all the photos I could find on the 'net that showed the Czech-built CS-92's as well as the Collings Foundation's new-build Me-262b and all of them showed flat-surfaced doors, with no bulges. That's as far as I can go, I'm afraid. A few of the photos were of the undersides while in flight. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Is this a great hobby and fraternity, or what? Ten modelers from all over the world, none of whom have likely ever met or will do so, poring over tons of photographic and written references, many of which are long OOP, just to help a fellow model builder get one of three strut fairing doors correct in appearance? You gotta love Britmodeller and its members! (I think we are all certifiable, but who cares?) Now, about that main tyre tread pattern... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Hi! I also have had massive and probably unhealthy overdose of Me 262 photo checking during last 24 hours. Just as Mike said, who cares ... To me it looks like undercarriage doors on most Me 262s were of double-skin flat type. Those of bulged variety were in distinct minority. On most of them ˝bulge˝ consisted of narrow enlongated oval, protruding slightly above otherwise flat door surface, as can be seen on Avia S-92 and Me 262 A-1a yellow 17 photos I mentioned in my previous post. What I took for a shadow of the bulge on the photo of yellow 17 undercarriage door is probably just a stencil. Nevertheless, those undercarriage doors were not completely flat. In my opinion Revell kit undercarriage had been inspired by Me 262 501244 flying replica. Photos on following links show what at least to me looks like bulged main undercarriage doors:http://www.militaryaircraft.de/pictures/military/aircraft/Me-262/Me-262_AP2011_0446_800.jpg http://www.militaryaircraft.de/pictures/military/aircraft/Me-262/Me-262_AP2011_0454_800.jpg Whether this was late late, or maybe too late wartime production version or undercarriage doors had been bulged for whatever reason during construction of Me 262 replica I have no idea. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Jure, Thanks for posting the photos- it sure does look like the lower strut fairing door is slightly convex in shape, but certainly lacks the teardrop-shaped blister as molded on the Revell 262b-1a kit. Since the photos are of a new-build, and we have no idea what differences there are in the wheel bays, wheels, or gear struts of the replica aircraft built, who is to say? Since we know the SAAF example had flat fairing doors and that is the airplane being modeled, I don't imagine it matters about variations in the shape of those doors. Sure has been a heckuva wild ride, though! Back at ya! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Mike, not much I could add right now. But just wait until I dig out and start working on my Me 262 kits. I will lament lack of decent Me 262 undercarriage photos in particular and indulge in all my pet hates about deficiencies of model kits in general all over the BM. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hugo Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Found this RAF Museum Hendon, seems like some sort of strengthening strip applied to hold door to support. Now whether that is during restoration or OEM fit is another question http://www.wildaviation.com/gallery3/index.php/Military-Museums/British-Museums/RAF-Hendon/2013/RAF-Museum-Hendon-2013-Me-262-CP5O5336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 I remember reading the reviews when Revell did a re-pop of their original 262 a few years back (still in the stash somewhere, unstarted) with optional parts for the big-gun & recce versions, which tempted me to buy it (again). Some commented then that the add-on camera fairings were suspect because they weren't regular teardrops, as most drawing showed them. I persisted at squinting at my Smith and Creeks (until I lost interest*) but came to the conclusion that Revell got it right after all. I don't want to kick off another "Fatal Flaw"** argument, especially as, like most of us, I have yet to touch plastic, mind you, I won't be bleating while waiting for some after-market resin doors either! If you can't trace around the originals and cut them out of plastic card, you shouldn't be on this forum. * The Trumpeter kit was announced. It is also waiting for the day I combine both kits together, and I cease to be a mere kit collector and commentator, get over my AMS and actually build something! ** No one should EVER use the FF term unless they explain how to fix it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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