Madoc Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: Pretty sure that it would have lost in a one on one fight with Enola Gay though. It woulda lost against a whole lot less than even that! The speed of this thing would not have been... high. It probably could've easily been caught out by a squadron of B-17s or Lancs. And they could've rained enough AP bombs on the thing to wreck its gun turrets and penetrate it's engine compartment thus stopping it in its tracks. At the least they could've cratered the ground around it such that it would've been stuck in place and thus subject to further air attacks until it was but a smoking crater itself. Then again, the P.1000 is a concept that came from the same bunch who didn't just propose the Schwerer Gustav but actually went ahead to build it and actually use it in combat. Schwerer Gustav - 1344 ton 800mm canon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 That gun says something very Freudian about the Nazi psyche, almost as if they have to make up for something! I rather like the idea of a diorama of a Ratte turret surrounded by water - it got caught by a "Grand Slam", fell into the crater and couldn't move. The crater filled with water in the meantime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madoc Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, The Wooksta! said: I rather like the idea of a diorama of a Ratte turret surrounded by water - it got caught by a "Grand Slam", fell into the crater and couldn't move. The crater filled with water in the meantime. Or it was trying to cross some lowlands in Holland and the Allies breached the nearby dike. Or the RAF noted there was a dam nearby and 617 Squadron just happened to have a few Upkeep bombs laying about. A bit of sporty low level flying later and... BOOM!!!! A nicely drowned Ratte resulted.... The P.1000 is patently absurd and that's the beauty of it! Edited January 5, 2017 by Madoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 BTW, did you ever see this, possibly the only plausible camo for an operational Maus: Das Maushaus! They would probably have had to camouflage the Ratte as a cathedral! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 17 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: They would probably have had to camouflage the Ratte as a cathedral! Worse than useless in the fight against Godless CommunismTM. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Communism ceased to be godless in 1942.....With the Nazis kicking the door in, Stalin needed all the help he could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 12 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: Communism ceased to be godless in 1942.....With the Nazis kicking the door in, Stalin needed all the help he could get. I suppose that's akin to the saying that there are no atheists in foxholes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Battleship grey with black and white stripes aka ===== Bismarck style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Didn't they actually start laying out the hull of the Ratte before (I forget his name) saw sense and deemed the project an incredibly vulnerable folly with no conceivable military use? If I'm right (I read it on the internet, and no one would lie on the internet, surely?), then it has quite a basis in fact. When you look at the size of the Dora, it would have been entirely possible that they'd have built it, used it once and realised their mistake. I'd quite fancy one, as I'm not all that fond of the Takom one's simplified tracks. Now if someone did one on 1:35, I would be really, really happy, but that won't happen... will it? p.s. Well done for de-escalating the little fracas earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 SPEER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invidia Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Not really bother about paper projects. But this I could have, if only for the talking point... you could imagine people asking "what the hell is that?" And then get confused when you tell them!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Frak it, frak me and frak everything. Just as I have spent well over 500 quid on the 1/100 Forged in Battle Ratte, I hear of this. Meaning I have bought support vehicles, assorted flakvierlings and other support weapons, figurines, and such mostly in the extreme detailed frosted from a couple of designers via Shapeways. Anyways, here is a link some of you may have not seen. Text is the usual BS, where they call piston engine fighters "jets", and have hardly any article without some glaring error or omission right down to abysmal typos. But it has a few interesting Ratte pictures I haven't seen before. http://www.warhistoryonline.com/military-vehicle-news/p-1000-ratte-paper-tiger-supertank.html/2 Edited January 10, 2017 by Joonavainio Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madoc Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Joonavainio said: Just as I have spent well over 500 quid to the 1/100 Forged in Battle Ratte, I hear of this. In this, you join a long and distinguished line of your fellow modelers who have done the same. Through your mutual sacrifice you have caused the Gods of Modeling to take note of your efforts and thus then to bring forth such models in kit form for the rest of us. Whether it be the model maker who scratchbuilds a subject in its entirety, the modeler who spends long hours at his model bench working some arcane vac form into the subject, or some modeler who just paid a King's Ransom to have purchased the sole remaining unbuilt kit of the subject from a manufacturer decades out of business - all your sacrifices have not been in vain. Thanks to your noble and selfless efforts, you have enabled the rest of us to be spared such pain and expense as we can now just go and buy the thing retail. Thank you, Joonavainio. Thank you. You shall be remembered by us all.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Madoc said: Thank you, Joonavainio. Thank you. You shall be remembered by us all.... Thank You, kind Sir. I shall take my defeat like a man. Probably I end up doing both. While preplanning this insanely large diorama, it would include the following: Ratte: 2 x turreted naval 280 mm SK C/28 cannons Glacis mounted 128mm cannon 4-6 x 20mm flakvierlings on "deck" Kugelblitz cannon on top of the turret "A lot" of MG34/ MG42 antipersonnel guns along the railings and ball turret mounted 4 x Nebelwerfers turret side mounted Würtzburg fire control radar Uhu infrared, various targeting sensors, and rangefinders between the two naval cannons Bay for 2 x BMW sidecar bikes A Kolibri scout helo Support vehicles: 2 x Opel Blitz fuel bowsers in process of refueling 2-4 x advanced E-50 Panthers as "fighter escort" Generators, stuff, etc... Personnel: Some Flecktarn tents A command post tent A platoon of Waffen-SS Panzergrenadiers guarding, loitering, chatting on a smoke break, etc A platoon of Panzer crew about the same as above A platoon of artillery (flak) crew Couple of dozen mechanics at work, prepping the Rat for battle Command staff going over battle plans by the command tent And so on... Most of those I have already purchased, but not started on them yet. I know this sounds utterly insane and ridiculous, but so is the whole concept of a Landkreutzer. This kinda megalomanic diorama will take a year or more to finish. But so what as long as its fun and challenging? Those who are familiar with the Bolo books about massive AI supertanks might have recognised a certain familiarity in the over the top armed Ratte. I love those stories, and they kinda inspired me. We'll see how the project goes on. I'll put it on hold for a month or so, hopefully hearing more of the 1/72 model progress. Joona Edited January 10, 2017 by Joonavainio Typos again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madoc Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Joona, That sounds awesome! Make sure to post your Work In Progress pics as well as the final rendering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Madoc said: Joona, That sounds awesome! Make sure to post your Work In Progress pics as well as the final rendering! Yea, I sure will. But I noticed that in haste I gave the wrong link to the totally unprofessional War history online. The Axis and Finland being "enemy of my enemy is my friend" did not call that Soviet supertank "Stalin's orchestra". They were called Stalinin urut (Stalin's organs), referring to the katyusha rocket launchers as they were. Here is the link I intended:https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/p-1000-ratte-paper-tiger-supertank.html Joona Edited January 12, 2017 by Joonavainio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) On 5/1/2017 at 0:48 AM, The Wooksta! said: That gun says something very Freudian about the Nazi psyche, almost as if they have to make up for something! Their leader likely suffered from something of that kind considering how obsessed he was by everything big. Sure he would have loved the idea of a megatank crushing everything in its path.. Such a weird idea probably also gets along well with the distorted idea that the Nazis had of the Nietzschean concept of the Ubermensch, an impressive tank for impressive men. Not that the Nazi were the only ones thinking big, since someone in Britain thought of a 2.2 milion ton aircraft carrier made of reinforced ice... fortunately in democracies there's a system in place that helps stopping absurdities before they get too far in the design stage Edited January 12, 2017 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Giorgio N said: Their leader likely suffered from something of that kind considering how obsessed he was by everything big. I'd rather not take politics into a scale model discussion. But... Probably the guys (or gals) just love things like Ratte, because they are insane and obscene (cue Alice Cooper -No more Mr. Nice guy). As for my fledgling project, I take it as an alternate history scene. Where the Allies failed the D-day, and realised the true enemy is Soviet Union. Quitting the massive lend lease. Like Patton said they should have allied with Germany after getting rid of nazis. If it would be possible in 1/72 let alone 1/100 to make a figure recongnisable, I would have Wittmann as the Ratte commander. However, it is a well known rumour that Adolf had only one ball. So there might be some freudian behind that. Vegetarian and a non-smoker, and rumoured to take testosterone shots and various now illegal drugs to get it on with Eva Braun. Our commander in chief marshal Mannerheim was not happy with the (expletive censored) coming unnoticed on his birthday. Knowing how Hitler hated smoking, he lit up a cigar after dinner. I think that sums up pretty well what us Finns thought of nazis. And no, we were not taking part in the holocaust. Jews, christians, buddhist, atheist fought the invaders just like anyone else. In my opinion modellers who take on a project like der Ratte fancy it just for the sheer craziness of the concept. And as it was never done even as a prototype, it gives free hands for alternate history imagination. Kinda like Pournelle's War World (sic) novels when aliens attack in the beginning of WW2. EDIT: A dose of Finnish dark humour: Edited January 12, 2017 by Joonavainio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Joona, I would agree that modellers interested in such a subject are just rightly fascinated by this being so incredibly weird ! Regarding the taste of Hitler for gigantic projects and his personality, sSometime I suspect that armament companies knew of this and used crazy ideas like the Ratte to get extra funding authorised from the Fuhrer himself... no surprise that a much more practical man like Speer canceled the project. What I also wonder is how something like the Ratte could have fitted in an army that made of mobility one of their dogmas ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The upside of all that Nazi pratting about was they squandered resources that might have been used to make more of these: Now they would have been a handful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: The upside of all that Nazi pratting about was they squandered resources that might have been used to make more of these: Now they would have been a handful. Hmm. A Panther with infrared sights. Not taking sides, the Panther was hands down the most advanced tank in WW2. Too bad for them, it was overengineered and quality over quantity backfired pretty bad. when Germany was short on resources. "We" have Leopard 2A6 which might be considered a direct descendant of the Panther Edited January 13, 2017 by Joonavainio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The full spec Ausf G was an excellent tank if deployed correctly, had the Germans not wasted resources on silly projects like Maus, they could have built a lot more sooner and also trained their tank crews better.....The majority of Panther losses were more attributable to poor tactical deployment than to any innate weakness of the type. PS - I nearly typed 'is' instead of 'was' a couple of times there, because I've been using late Ausf Gs in CMRT, I smashed up best part of a Guards Tank Brigade with a short company of Panther Gs not the other night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Oh, I didn't mean the Panther was a bad design. It was just engineered to need high quality materials the Jerries were short of in the late war. It was one of the rare cases when quantity over quality won. An opposite example was the Finnish air force with a kill ratio of 34 to one. Joona Edited January 14, 2017 by Joonavainio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonavainio Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) OMFG! I got my Ratte from Forged in Battle a while ago. Now, I know and knew it is a resin kit, but I could't imagine the whole chassis is SOLID resin. I expected something hollow to make the scout bike and kolibri helo bays a somewhat easier to make. Flabbergasted, I am stuck here with a solid chunk of resin actually weighing more than a brick. Plus a molded on base, but I knew I'd have to get rid of it anyway for a diorama. To be fair, this behemoth is excellently molded without a trace of resin mold pits or bubbles. But as said, I'll put this project on hold and wait a while if a miracle happens and a decent 1/72 model emerges. Joona Edited January 28, 2017 by Joonavainio Fairness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 On 08/01/2017 at 10:53 PM, Mike said: Didn't they actually start laying out the hull of the Ratte before (I forget his name) saw sense and deemed the project an incredibly vulnerable folly with no conceivable military use? If I'm right (I read it on the internet, and no one would lie on the internet, surely?), then it has quite a basis in fact. Errrr.....No. Quote As of December 29, 1942 a few preliminary drawings had been completed, by which time the concept had been named "Ratte" by Hitler himself. These submitted designs went under the titles OKH Auftrag Nr. 30404 and E-30404/1. Albert Speer saw no reasonable use of the tank and canceled the project in 1943 before any prototype could be manufactured. As Guderian put it, "Hitler's fantasies sometimes shift into the gigantic". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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