couple of questions about tiger 131

[cambridge]

Tiger 131 as i assume most of you already know is the first working tiger captured by the brits in tunisia during ww2 and is currently in Bovington tank museum fully restored and in working conditions.

Well i'm working on a Zvezda 1/35 tiger kit and I'm converting it into the famous #131, the idea is to put it in a diorama depicting the moment following its capture.

 

As a reference i'm using both pictures of the restored version in Bovington and original pictures of the event and i'm trying to be as accurate as possible. 

 

so what i want is to ask a couple of questions 

 

i've found this picture as you can see is very accurate but it gives me some troubles.

 

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how do you interpret it? This is the same tank, same situation, different angle

 

 

for example, the exausts covers: is that the simple 2 tone camo that i'm seeing or is there some effect produced by the hot temperature? It looks like some paint patches have simply fallen off ( the dark patches ) it could be the red base primer showing there or some rust. 

 

also, about the camo, this is the restored tank

 

 

as you can see the separation on the two colors is quite sharp, and the same you can see from the preview b&w picture if you watch the side of the turret. 

But that back picture shows something else, on the exausts covers, on the air filters, on the turret box, you can see the separations are not that sharp, they look almost like worn paint.

 

So in the end i would love your suggestion on how to paint this tank in order to be as accurate as possible to the original one. 

[JackG]

The brown patches on the exhaust covers is a result of the heat.  It is likely burned metal and not primer that we see.   The insides of the shields are also covered in soot:

 

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The camouflage scheme is actually quite exact as to how it appeared in Tunisia.  The late author/researcher Jentz was present during the restoration:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1206324526

 

regards,

Jack

[Sgt.Squarehead]

What Jack said.....Bovvy got this one right. 

 

Here's a geuine WWII colour (not colourised) photo of the real camo scheme:

 

[fewr9fkr9595]

Yeah both black and white pics are the same tank. Still has the chalk/painted 122 chassis number on the left fiefel air filter. As in it was the 122nd tiger off of the production line.

From what i have read it is a February 1943 production vehicle. Things that indicate this would be 6 gun cleaning rods (3 even per side instead of 5 odd length) on the top deck, and the brackets for the s-mines on the hull but not the launchers themselves. This tank also had a Porsche mantlet (notch in bottom left corner) and some field mod brackets on the front to help climbing onto the tank. 

The two tone camo colors are quite close in shade, plus the amout of dust and grime makes it more difficult to discern. The dark patch on the rear hull inbetween the left idler adjuster plate and exhaust armour bucket is an oil stain in my opinion. 

[cambridge]

this is a work in progress, still have to apply filters, chipping, wash and weathering ( if anyone is interested, it's the Zvezda kit and it is amazing ),.  

 

 

going back to the exhausts, I know i sound like a bit crazy and annoying but they look like they're gonna be probably the most worn part of the model so ii just wanna make them right.

 I have not yet painted the exhausts covers, still trying to figure out the best effect to apply, i've annotated the preview picture so i can ask more detailed questions:

 

 

1 is that the separation between the 2 colors camouflage there? or just a highly dramatic shadow efffect considering the light is most certainly coming from the right of the picture? 

2 oil/ fuel patch i assume

3 that seems like a patch of paint that peeled off, edges are too sharp. What color should that be? dark Red like the primer used on the tank? rust? bare metal? ( it looks dark and opaque so i guess dark red could be the answer )

4 - 5 again oil fuel patches? why there?

6 is that the camouflage or is that the dirt/dust coming from the tracks?

7 again like point 1, light/shadow or 2 color camo?

8 i see a gradient of color from top to bottom on both covers? is it the dark color camo wearing and showing the original color under it? is it dust? is the top smoky cause of the fumes?

 

sorry to be so annoying.

Edited December 29, 2016 by cambridge

[cambridge]

17 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

What Jack said.....Bovvy got this one right. 

 

Here's a geuine WWII colour (not colourised) photo of the real camo scheme:

 

 

i've seen some pictures of that LIFE series, do you know where i can find them all? If it turns out good I'm planning to put this model in a diorama, they would make a good reference for the colors of grass, ground 

[JackG]

The colour photos can be located at gettyimages.ca - I just did a simple search on 'Tunisia 1943' and they can be found within 5 pages:

http://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/tunisia-1943?editorialproducts=timelife&excludenudity=true&family=editorial&page=1&phrase=tunisia 1943&sort=best#license

 

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It might be a could idea to look at other photos of the Tiger's rear to understand better what sort of weathering is going on there.  I don't know about fuel spills, because the filler cap is located on the rear deck - but I suppose if an open fuel can is passed over it might spill a drop?  Maybe a refill  hose was passed over from the backside, and that's when a drip occurred?

 

The dark tones at the lowers is likely just more soot, and the lighter area are either heavy dust or the paint has turned ash white.

Photo from Bovington, this shows the staining at the rear. 

 

 

It doesn't extend to the very bottom, but as  I understand it, this Tiger does not have the original engine, nor is it being driven in the same climate.  No doubt the museum staff don't put it through the rigors like it was in Tunisia.

 

Another photo shows a bit heavier black soot around the shields, note the bottom:

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

[cambridge]

very useful picture, thanks. i've seen many bovington pictures but these are very good in this regards. i wasn't aware the "smoke area" could actually be so widespread and for sure i'll depict it in my model. 

 

for the "ash white" paint i tought about it too, but i have the feeling that it is a strange pattern there. I mean on both exhausts on the right side. And on both exhausts right on the side that is in full light. But again if you compare it with the side of the turret in full light you see it definitely more white, therefore i'm still confused. 

 

i assume museum stuff is spending much time in cleaning it and keeping it in good shape so i assume "the real deal" could be even worse. I was trying to look to other original B&w pictures of other tigers in order to define a smoke pattern  but the damn tank is almst always depicted from the front or the side. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by cambridge

[Sgt.Squarehead]

121 currently has a Kingtiger engine IIRC. 

 

I think the contrast may be down to two seperate effects, to my eye the left exhaust appears to be in the darker colour and it's right side seems to have taken a knock that has flaked most of the paint off for about 1/3 of its height starting from the top.  Thus the brighter area on this exhaust appears to me to be a reflection on bare(ish) metal.   The highlighting elsewhere looks to be the effects of bright sunlight picking out the dust that coats the whole vehicle.....Just my 

 

FWIW

[cambridge]

so i've taken some artistic liberty and after some time and lot of salt i've come up with this result for the exhaust shields ( mind this is just the base color, i still have to weather them and apply smoke/pigments )

please forgive the fact that there's still some small particle of salt on them. 

 

( i removed these picture since i've published the updated ones )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by cambridge

[cambridge]

so, it's not yet fully completed, the air filters are still under work, the rest of the tank is still way behind, but more or less the back will end up looking like this. What do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by cambridge

[fewr9fkr9595]

Nice so far! Lose the rear tow shackles to match pic even more 👍🏿

 

(As you've gone to the effort of matching damage, position of crank handle and the missing jack & track tool box. Plus they look too clunky/thickly molded anyway)

Edited January 1, 2017 by Tony Oliver

[cambridge]

7 hours ago, Tony Oliver said:

Nice so far! Lose the rear tow shackles to match pic even more 👍🏿

 

(As you've gone to the effort of matching damage, position of crank handle and the missing jack & track tool box. Plus they look too clunky/thickly molded anyway)

 

you're suggestion is very wellcome, incredibly i hadn't noticed that detail. luckly they were not even glued, so it's been a matter of a second. 

[BulldogModels]

Nice! lovely bit of detailing! I too was thinking of building 131, but I have decided against it while I practice some techniques a bit more.

 

Does this kit have an engine or engine bay? ... I'm currently building a Tiger myself with full interior and I'm struggling to decide what colour to paint the engine itself.  Does not look black to me.

[JackG]

Engines tend to be left in their metal state, such has cast iron or aluminum.  See here:

http://byrden.com/panzers/Colours/

 

regards,

Jack

[BulldogModels]

Thanks for that @JackG very informative page