David Womby Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I know I have a pic somewhere of an operational RAF Lightning with no belly tank. I think it was an F1 or F3 and I assume it was on a (very) short test flight. I cannot find it. Can anybody point me to one, please? I really do mean a pic of an operational aircraft and not a pic of F1s, etc without belly tanks after they had been relegated to airfield targets/decoys. Thanks for any help. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I've found these David, one flying, two have or may be going to. John 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I've just spotted the top photo is the same aircraft as the bottom one XM701! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 John, you always come up with the goods! F.3 XP701 was a trials machine for a long time, but never expected to see that last shot when it was in sqn use! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, canberra kid said: I've found these David, one flying, two have or may be going to. John Brilliant, John! Thanks so much. I hadn't seen the ones of XP701 before but the middle one is the one I remember from somewhere. Looks like she's with the LTF. She's an F1A and I presume she's XM183 given the code on her fin? BTW - Bradford - that brings back happy memories. I went to Bradford Grammar School for a couple of years many, many decades ago. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Martin Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I have a slide of F.3 XR716 flying without the belly tank PatM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) After seeing Johns last pic and having no idea that they did this so late in their career, I had a quick google around and found this shot of '716 flying without the tank, Phil Bradshaw - Flickr I can feel another Lightning build a coming! Edited December 17, 2016 by 71chally 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Very cool! Wish the various kits out there had made the belly tank separate so modellers could easily replicate this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 The small tank ones could do this, IIRC it wasn't uncommon after maintenance for a short test flight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 29 minutes ago, Procopius said: Very cool! Wish the various kits out there had made the belly tank separate so modellers could easily replicate this. The newish Airfix kits do half the work for you don't they? IIRC the front half of the (granted it's the bigger F2a/F6 set-up) tank/gun pack is separate which just leaves you to hack...I mean delicately remove the rear part and then make a blanking plate. How hard can that be to a man of your skills? (and hopefully half way through you're conversion someone will produce a resin conversion. Well that's what happened to me anyway!). Duncan B 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Recently read Lightning Boys. If the had an engine fire in No2, they would dump the tank if 1) they were near enough to an airfield 2) still had control and a chance to land the machine. It's possible they left the tank off after work on No2 engine just in case there a was a leak and fire during the air test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 43 minutes ago, Duncan B said: How hard can that be to a man of your skills? You mock me, sir. Incredibly hard. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley John Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Procopius said: You mock me, sir. Incredibly hard. Well that's me bu****ed then! I was going to follow your build! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Harley John said: Well that's me bu****ed then! I was going to follow your build! Well, I hope you're happy, Duncan. Me humiliated, and Harley bu****ed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 hour ago, David Womby said: Brilliant, John! Thanks so much. I hadn't seen the ones of XP701 before but the middle one is the one I remember from somewhere. Looks like she's with the LTF. She's an F1A and I presume she's XM183 given the code on her fin? BTW - Bradford - that brings back happy memories. I went to Bradford Grammar School for a couple of years many, many decades ago. David XM183 is an F.1A but with the Binbrook TFF (Target Facilities Flight), basically act as an incoming raider, I believe the radar was replaced by a Luneberg Lens to act as a radar reflector. XP701 was an F.3 with 11 Sqn and XP716 was likewise with 5 Sqn. Mate of mine was an ex-Lightning liney, he said the F.3's had enough fuel to scramble and then get back into the circuit, when used for Battle Flight they had to be met by a Victor orbiting off of Grimsby to fuel up or return to base. Those without tanks can only have managed about 15 minutes of flight before landing - chopsy ride when you think about it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Procopius said: Well, I hope you're happy, Duncan. Me humiliated, and Harley bu****ed. Not at all! If I wasn't busy looking at all my uncompleted builds today I'd have a quick go at chopping an Airfix Lightning up, Milliput is your friend (other fillers are available). Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 When I was at Binbrook (83-87) F3's/T5's without belly tanks were used for low level air to air combat training. They used Covenham Resevoir near Louth as their war zone and would be airborne for about 10 minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Scarlet said: When I was at Binbrook (83-87) F3's/T5's without belly tanks were used for low level air to air combat training. They used Covenham Resevoir near Louth as their war zone and would be airborne for about 10 minutes! So it was a routine thing and not just a post servicing air test ride then? Given the Lightning's well publicised lack of endurance that surprises me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 14 hours ago, Duncan B said: The newish Airfix kits do half the work for you don't they? IIRC the front half of the (granted it's the bigger F2a/F6 set-up) tank/gun pack is separate which just leaves you to hack...I mean delicately remove the rear part and then make a blanking plate. How hard can that be to a man of your skills? (and hopefully half way through you're conversion someone will produce a resin conversion. Well that's what happened to me anyway!). You'd have to turn it into an F3. The large tank on the F6 wasn't removeable in the same way as the small tank on the F1/F1A/F2/F3/T5. I did a combat trip in a tub (T5) with Jim Wild. We were in 'burner from coasting out to coasting back in (2 splits IIRC). We logged 15 minutes but I know for a fact it was closer to 11! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 You would have to use the F.1/F.3 kit as the basis anyway, unless you want to make up new wing leading edges and the fin. In a way it's a more straightforward job than suggested with the F.2A/F.6 kit, as a fair majority of the clean belly is already there, just need to remove the small tank and fill the remaining hole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Alley Cat Models have a new P.1B conversion set available soon, that includes the wings from their F.1/3 conversion for the Airfix F.2A/6 kits, plus new belly with separate tank (as decal option XA847 flew with and without it). All you need to do is not use the P.1B short fin and you can make an F.1/2/3 without the tank. Belly was mastered by Campbell previously of Odds and Ordnance, not sure when it will be listed on his website (not there yet) but I have seen a sample a few months back. Colin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Ascoteer said: You'd have to turn it into an F3. The large tank on the F6 wasn't removeable in the same way as the small tank on the F1/F1A/F2/F3/T5. Yep, roger that but that's what sharp blades, sanding sticks and milliput are for. I did a hack/bash of the Airfix 1/72 F2a back to an F1 when it first came out and half way through the conversion Ali announced his original conversion set! I was briefly at Binbrook at the end of my Apprenticeship and had to refuel an LTF Lightning at lunchtime even though it hadn't gone anywhere since we'd fuelled it first thing in the morning (the fuel had departed into the drip trays though). Duncan B 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Further to my earlier post, the P.1B set is listed but not ready for dispatch yet as fin needed tweaking. F.1/3 smooth belly sets will be released soon so you can model as F.3 or F.1 as per above pics; http://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/english-electric-p1b-xa847-early-conversion-set-6581-p.asp Colin Edited December 18, 2016 by Colin @ Freightdog Models 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Ah, I thought we were talking 48th scale, hence my reference to using the Airfix F.1/F.3 boxing - will stick to plasticard and milliput! Great thread though, and really fired me up to a late F.3 sans tank! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 Mine will be 1/72 but using the ancient Airfix F1/F3 kit. I'm trying to build what's in the stash despite MUCH better, newer moulds being available. David 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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